Marriage equality was a mere pipe dream when Indigo Girls duo Emily Saliers and Amy Ray came out in 1988, coinciding with the release of their eponymous Epic Records debut. There was no groundbreaking Ellen sitcom. Melissa Etheridge wasn’t formally out, and wouldn’t be until 1993, when she released Yes I Am. With regard to popular entertainment, particularly within the music business, Saliers and Ray were at the forefront of the queer rights movement. They won a Grammy and released chart-toppers like “Closer to Fine.” And they refused to let their sexuality get in the way of their success, brazenly being themselves at a time when being a gay public figure was uncommon and even downright scary. 

I caught up with Saliers, 53, and Ray, 52, at the beginning of 2017, just days before Donald Trump would become our 45th president. The trailblazers talked about how music will unify despite the divisiveness of his administration, why “this is a really good time for artists to come to the forefront and stand up and be brave,” and their initial grade-school encounter that led to a devoted musical career and dear friendship spanning three decades. 

You’re on the road fairly frequently. What keeps you touring as often as you do?

Amy Ray: Every audience is different, so every experience is different, and I just think it’s good to get out there and play in front of people and keep that community… build it and keep it vibrant and have that exchange.

Emily Saliers: The demographic is more mixed now, and there are younger people who come to the shows. I don’t know how they find out about us, maybe their parents. Also, a lot of young women who are looking for bands that have a feminist reality about them. Self-empowered, self-worth, self-questioning – all those things that are all over our lyrics. Even though we’ve gotten much older, I don’t feel like the experience of going to one of our shows is like we’re just this old band that’s been around forever. It still feels new and fresh. I love it as much or more than I ever have.

Given the divisiveness of what’s happening politically, is building that sense of community more important now? 

Ray: It might be. I guess in some ways there are other levels where community is always important, because even when you have the best kind of administration and a president that you love, there are still pockets within our own country that need community and need that glue where there’s hard things going on, whether it’s different queer communities or Native American communities or communities of color that are disenfranchised in some way. But right now, it's pretty daunting. There might be reversals that are negative environmentally and human rights-wise. I think it’s definitely a time to batten down the hatches and roll up the sleeves and start working. 

What part do you think the arts, including music, will play in the political climate of Trump’s America? 

Ray: This is a really good time for artists to come to the forefront and stand up and be brave and make themselves known, and not be worried about alienating people with their art. Sometimes in the music community – still – there are people who go, “Oh, we don’t want to rock the boat and alienate our audience.” But I feel like people are feeling less of that and more like, “Screw it.” I can see it happening around me with my friends even, who didn’t want to rock the boat, who might’ve been scared to alienate somebody in their audience. But now I think it’s like, “Well, what do we have to lose?” 

Visual art and movies and theater right now are very important – music, also. Popular culture, like with Ellen, the original sitcom, for instance, really impacted people. It broadened a lot of people’s horizons, and Transparent does that as far as issues around queerness and trans issues and issues around Jewishness. 

During Obama’s administration, there was, in a good way, a lot of permission given to all this really beautiful art to blossom, and I think that’s good because there’s this strong groundwork that’s been laid that just needs to continue happening well into the next administration. Art can really bring people together who might feel alienated from each other, like in my community. I live in a rural community where maybe 80 or 90 percent of the people voted for Trump, but I don’t really demonize people. I can’t go there ’cause they’re my neighbors, and I know them. I know them in their best moments. And I just try to understand where they’re coming from.

Saliers: I think (art is) going to play a huge part. For me, personally, the second the election was over I wrote a song about it, and it’s gonna be on my new record, because for my own personal reasons, I had to have a catharsis. I know people need music to help speak their challenges and their struggles, and I think music is going to do two things, maybe more. First of all, for people who are just horrified that he’s our president, and the cabinet that he’s bringing in – possibly the Supreme Court justices – it’s gonna let them know they’re not alone. They’re gonna be able to tap into music that makes them realize that they’re part of a vast community of people who are opposed to all that stuff, and that’s really important. It’s going to remind Trump that the musical culture is not with him. That can be a very real pressure – that there is a movement against hate. Also, it’s a way for us to soothe our souls in troubled times. Go out and hear live music and listen to music and keep the conversation going, and don’t forget that we have elected someone who is frightening and incapable. Americans get lethargic, and we forget bad things happen. But this is an ongoing reality. We can’t forget, and I really believe music is going to keep reminding all of us what we’re up against.

Amy, what was your post-election catharsis? 

Ray: I definitely wrote. I write all the time. I just didn’t have the visceral... it didn’t totally surprise me, I guess. I’ve worked it out in my community. I really made this commitment to myself to reach out to people even though I know they voted for Trump (laughs) – family members. I really tried to take Michelle Obama’s word and “go high.” She’s a very important person to me, and so is Barack. I just really tried to look at how they were dealing with the situation and follow their example. I hate to say that, because I am my own person, but in some ways, I needed some inspiration, and they inspire me in a lot of ways to reach beyond my little world and little bubble of friends. I’m the kind of person who processes by doing, and so volunteering – something concrete – is how I process stuff. Writing helps me. Generally, I write every day, so I’m always processing everything. But I haven’t written an anti-Trump song, and I probably won’t. 

People have long revered you as gay icons. 

Ray: (Laughs.) I think it’s funny. 

Why is it funny? 

Ray: I mean, it’s flattering, but my god, we have such a lot to learn. I feel like we’ve been students more than teachers in the world of activism. The people who came before us and the people who are younger than us have really constantly challenged us to think about things and look at intersectionality, things that more people in their teens and 20s are really focusing on.

Our activism is really an area that is constantly evolving and morphing, so it’s hard to think about myself as an icon when I still think of myself as a student. 

I guess we’ve been at it a long time and we’re older, and we certainly have seen a lot of things change. We’re stronger than we used to be in our convictions and are able to love ourselves more than we used to, so in some ways I guess we have some experience. A little bit of gained wisdom. But that’s always been a long road, and we’ve made mistakes along the way and been scared, so in that way we can still understand people and how they feel if they’re struggling with it. We don’t forget our struggles. 

Emily, what does being a gay icon mean to you?

Saliers: I feel humbled to hear that, but I don’t feel like an icon. I always feel like somebody built the bridge, paved the path and suffered more before I got to be part of the movement. 

Someone’s gotta carry the torch, though. 

Saliers: I feel like a torch-carrier, that’s what I feel like. I also feel like the fact that we’ve been able to be out, open and supportive of the queer rights movement and of the trans evolution and of civil rights now has just been – I’m so grateful for it. I’m happy that we’ve been able to be out and free for so long, and real active members for the community, standing up for our family members who are still suffering.

Does being an out artist mean anything different to you now than it did when you first came out?

Ray: When we first came out, we were fearful of what it meant. Our biggest fear was alienating part of our audience – I wouldn’t even think about that now, honestly. It’s a more positive thing now. Back then it was… there was so much derogatory language around us being gay in the first half of our career. So many reviews that would refer to us in a really negative way, and people would make fun of our audience. We were always the punching bag for gay humor. It just felt like a bummer sometimes. Over time, we’ve had to learn how to just look at it as a positive thing. 

Back then, I did think about visibility, and that’s probably what spurred us to (come out). We were feeling guilty because we were hiding something. We were out in our communities and we were community activists, so our lens, even in the late ’80s, early ’90s, was a political lens, although it definitely got more and more political through the ’90s. But we did think about (visibility) because where we lived in Atlanta, post high school, when we were in college at Emory, HIV/AIDS activism was really big, and they were trying to get artists, actors and people in the arts to come out in support of HIV/AIDS activism. So, it was something we were thinking about. It wasn’t like we were scared we were going to get caught and then crucified. It was more like, “This is a compelling reason. If we’re sitting in front of our audience and talking about the importance of self-esteem and individualism, and we’re activists and we’re not willing to be visible when all these other people are willing to be visible, there’s something wrong with that.” That was our conversation with each other. 

Saliers: We were always out in our lives, and with our families, friends and locally, and then we got signed to a major label and the national press wanted to talk about it. I had a lot of fear at that time about talking about it in the national press. When I got the courage to be out, it was a feeling of relief and pride. I had fears that we’d be stigmatized and judged and the same old crap. We ended up being all those things, but it didn’t matter. The way I felt about being an out musician then was like (whispers), “OK, we’ve announced it. We’re in it.” Now, it’s like, this is really who we are and we are part of a community and things are too important not to take a stand. 

I think it’s become a very important part of what the Indigo Girls represent. 

Saliers: And I’m really thankful for that. Over time, and with age and wisdom, I think you just have a different perspective on how important it is.

Are you working on any solo material, Amy?

Ray: I’m writing right now for it, and I’d say I’m about a third of the way through. It’ll be a country-tinged record with punk influences. Emily’s got her record coming out; we just gotta figure out timing. And how to make another Indigo record, ’cause we’re both like, “We’re ready for the next record,” but then we’re like, “When are we gonna write for the next record?” I think her solo record is gonna be bigger than she thinks it will be, so I’m standing back a little bit. She wrote me a text and was like, “I’m really excited to write for the next Indigo record.” She’s such a team player. It’s good for us. We’re both in it for each other.

Amy, what’s your earliest memory of Emily? 

Ray: I remember seeing her in the lunchroom with a gaggle of girls around her and she was playing a song on her guitar and singing. I think a couple of them were singing with her, maybe, and I was like, “That’s the new girl and she plays and sings.” I was playing guitar already too. And I think my first memory was immediately realizing how far ahead she was of the curve. (Laughs) It kind of made me feel intimidated. She was a year older, and you know, we didn’t get to be friends until high school, when we were around 15. I was 9 when I first saw her. 

You were just admiring her from afar? 

Ray: Yeah, just kind of taking stock. Emily has this revision of history that she wasn’t popular, and I beg to differ with her about that all the time. I’m always like, “Well, to me, you were popular because I always saw you with all these people around you, and you were always singing and everybody was adoring you, and I was totally intimidated. So, in my little world, you were very popular.” We ended up being the best of friends, so it all worked out. 

Was there ever a moment in your career when you wanted to pursue something outside of music? 

Saliers: The only time I ever thought about the possibility of not doing what I was doing was when I had stage fright for a year-and-a-half, and it just derailed me. I thought, “I can’t do this.” This was a long, long time ago – over 10, 15 years ago. Honestly, that’s the only time I’ve ever thought, “I can’t do this.” And it was because of the fear, not anything else. Also, we get to do so many outside projects from Indigo Girls I’ve never felt like I’d rather be doing something else. I just finished tracking my solo record! I’m very excited. I’ve been talking about it for years. It’s very rhythm-centric. A lot of R&B inspiration. I set out to make a record for what I wanted that I wasn’t hearing. I really wanted the African-American presence of drummers who come from the soul-gospel-church background. 

When can we expect your debut solo album?

Saliers: In the spring. I hope for April, maybe May. In the spring, we’re gonna go record with University of Colorado’s symphony orchestra, and (Amy and I are) gonna make a record of symphonically performed songs. We’re also working toward making another Indigo Girls studio record. It’s just onto the next thing. There’s no stopping us.

The Gay and Lesbian Community Center of Southern Nevada (The Center) is expanding. Less than four years after opening its first location near downtown Las Vegas, The Center plans to open a Henderson location in early 2017. 

This new location will be home to the Center Advocacy Network, which will connect the LGBT community with needed services and resources.

“This will help us achieve a wider reach in the community,” Michael Dimengo, CEO of The Center, told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. 

“We don’t intend to reinvent the wheel. We have been fortunate to partner with social service agencies throughout Las Vegas. We intend to co-locate those services and agencies and connect (our clients) with those agencies.”

The new location at 1995 Whitney Mesa Drive will focus on social services, offering a food bank, clothing exchange and job training for LGBT community members. 

“At this time, we wouldn’t be expanding our staff,” Dimengo said, adding that he hopes to recruit enough volunteers to help out. On social media he’s already asked for skilled individuals, such as contractors, electricians and artists, to donate time and services to the new space. 

Las Vegas residents Jon Gathercole and Claude Raffin donated the 4,500-square-foot-space. They had been impressed during a visit to the Las Vegas location a few years back, but realized that The Center needed more room.

After purchasing a warehouse in Henderson, they showed Dimengo and board members the space. They also hosted a fundraiser in 2016 that raised $47,000 to go towards renovations. The couple then also gave $25,000 of their own money.

“We hope that this gets other people to step forward and see there is a need and offer financial support,” Gathercole said.

The Center’s polling data shows that the Las Vegas location currently gets an influx of residents from Henderson.

Sin City Shootout is the “largest annual LGBT sporting event in the world” and takes place right here in Las Vegas. Now in its 10th year in our city, the event is set to run from Jan. 12-15 and promises 25 sports, over 8,500 athletes and plenty of parties and other events to keep you entertained. Ahead of the event, we spoke with founder and tournament director Eric Ryan about the event’s history, highlight moments, its importance to Las Vegas and, of course, sports.

How did this all start? Tell us a bit about the inspiration and that first year. Back in early 2007, I was at a softball event and there were challenges they had with their scheduling which negatively affected teams traveling to compete in their event. It left a lot of their softball players unhappy, including myself and my team. The 2-hour drive home to Los Angeles was just a lot of thoughts about the way they ran their event and what could be done better. And it just so happened that the weekend after I was making one of my annual trips to Las Vegas to play in a poker tournament. So the next week and after that tournament as I was driving into Las Vegas in the early evening going up the 15 freeway, off in the distance I saw the bright lights from a park. It was obviously lights from some kind of sports field. A lightbulb immediately went off in my head about, “Gee, why don’t they have a gay softball tournament here in Vegas?” I pulled off the freeway and went to the park. The fields just looked terrific – better than anything we had played on in Southern California. So instead of playing in the poker tournament that weekend, I spent three days driving around to different parks, looking at different fields, making notes and scoping out what would it actually take to rent these fields from Clark County, City of Las Vegas and so forth. 

I got all the information from those parks, came back home and started putting numbers together. I took the idea to our local softball league and said, “Hey, let’s do a fundraiser tournament for our Greater Los Angeles softball league in Las Vegas.” And they all looked at me like I was crazy. They’re like, “We all live down here in Los Angeles. We can’t do a tournament in another state.” I’ve never been one to accept “no” means “no”. “No” means just find a different way to get to a “yes” or get things accomplished. So I spent the next four or five months traveling to Las Vegas from Los Angeles. I made quite a few trips talking to the Visitors Convention Bureau, different hotels and said, “You know what? I’m going to put this tournament on myself.” Everything eventually was falling into place and I started promoting it to teams. I told my local league, they saw that I was putting things together and the event was going to happen and said, “Can we still be a part of this?” So each year the non-profit beneficiary is the Greater Los Angeles Softball Association. We raise funds for its yearly activities and the promotion of LGBT athletics in the Los Angeles area.

I would say probably about year three or four of Sin City, I had friends who played in wrestling, basketball and soccer, in different LGBT leagues, and the one thing they all said about their events and their annual tournaments was, “They just don’t have the camaraderie that softball does.” They might have a couple dozen athletes, but softball gets hundreds if not thousands of people and teams together. They really wished their events had that. Again, another light bulb went off and I thought, “Why don’t we hold a wrestling tournament, a soccer tournament, a basketball tournament, etc., alongside Sin City Shootout? Our collective numbers together would get us better buying power at the clubs, at the hotels, at the restaurants, at the events.” That first year of all the sports together, it really took off. The word got out there and the momentum grew each year, really organically. It just has grown tremendously by other sports wanting to be involved. Now we’re up to 25 sports. This year we’re actually adding a diving competition, which will take place at UNLV. 

So what was the second sport you added? The second sport was actually wrestling. Wrestling does not have a large number of athletes per say, so for it to hold an event on its own, it’s very difficult, because they either need to rent a gym location or someplace big enough for all the mats. With softball, with all of the numbers and the number of hotel rooms, we are able to say, “Hey, we need a ballroom to hold wrestling in.” So again, our collective numbers benefit each other. We really all feed off each other and benefit each other with our attendees. It’s our collective numbers that not only give us better buying power and allow the smaller sports to grow and allow the smaller sports to actually have a word class event that everybody wants to attend, but it also allows all of us to cross-socialize.

This latest edition will be the 10th anniversary of Sin City Shootout. What has been the most gratifying moment for you? Let me share an annual memory. I have a committee that helps me put the event on and I truly give them a tremendous amount of credit, but a lot of the responsibilities I take on myself because I really take it to heart that here are thousands of individuals travelling hundreds and thousands of miles to Las Vegas to participate, compete and have fun in an event that I basically say is going to happen. I really take it to heart that these athletes, their families and friends spend a lot of money to come and compete. But to answer your question, the biggest annual gratifying moment I have is that Friday night registration party we have. When the doors open, I go behind the scenes, I go in the back little hallway or up to my room for a minute and I truly have just an emotional release of tears. When everything I created comes together, the event has started and is in motion, everything I put in place is in the hands of the volunteers and staff. But it’s one of those happy emotional cries. “I can breathe. Everything’s on autopilot now. All of our sport coordinators are there, all of our volunteers are in place.” Just a moment of, “Everything’s in their hands. Everything I put together is their hands. Now they just have to execute it.” 

I love being at that Friday night event because I think it’s a beautiful picture of the LGBT community in all of its diversity. And allies as well. Thank you. And just to go along with that, we have 25 sports and everybody is represented. Everybody gets along and it truly is about the athletes. That’s the main focus of the event. Everybody loves to come and have the parties at night, but it truly is about what’s the most memorable and best time we can make and give the athletes that are travelling all this way. That’s what is really, really important to me, is to give them that memorable experience. The city of Vegas itself is a draw because of the glitz and the glamor and everything it has to offer. But just as an event, “What can we give that LGBT athlete to make it the best time we can?” And I think each year we try to expand on it and accomplish that each year. 

What is one of the biggest challenges in putting on an event like this? Probably the biggest challenge is making everyone happy. It’s extremely difficult with so many different segments of the LGBT market coming for one event. The one thing that draws everybody together is the sports. But the biggest challenge is, “Okay, after the sporting events are over, does somebody want a nightclub experience? Do they want the cowboy experience? The sports bar experience? Do they want a lesbian bar experience?” It really is a big feat to have something for everyone to do off the field, or at least to give them an opportunity to do something off the field. It’s also finding those host hotels that give those folks that want the opportunity just to relax in the jacuzzi and not go out and party. One thing we did was partner with Cirque du Soleil and Zumanity. They’ve been great to work with and providing a lot of support to make the event a memorable experience for our athletes. So again, it’s giving our attendees the opportunity to go to these shows at a good price, hopefully better than they normally would get during a vacation to Las Vegas. 

What are some of the more recent sports added to Sin City Shootout? How do they get added? This year we’ve added diving. The way sports are added is really organic. I’ll get an email from somebody saying, “Hey, I really wish you had this sport.” And I’ll ask them, “Well, do you know anything about organizing that sport?” They’ll either say “yes” or “no” and I’ll ask them if they know someone who does have the skills to organize a sport like that and have them contact me and ask them to be the sport coordinator for that sport and get the ball moving that way. That happened this year with diving. Within two or three hours, I was on a conference call with our diving coordinator, David Freedman. David himself happened to help run diving at the Rio Olympics and that brought a tremendous amount of skill and knowledge to that sport itself.

In recent years, we added swimming, running and even bridge has been a sport we offer for quite a few years now. Usually it seems to be one sport per year added the last couple of years. We’re getting to a point where we pretty much offer all the sports Vegas can accommodate. It would be a big challenge and a little bit of a drive to get some yachts out to Lake Mead, but we could offer sailing if the athletes want them. Even surfing, it definitely crossed my mind over at Mandalay Bay with the wave pool and beach they have there. Their waves just aren’t big enough yet! 

Billiards was recently added as well, correct? Billiards came on about four years ago and our billiards sport coordinator is from the Las Vegas LGBT billiards organization. 

What sport is particular popular with locals? The Sin City Shootout taking place in Las Vegas actually led to the creation of Las Vegas’ first and only LGBT softball association. After about year three of the Sin City Shootout, some local Las Vegas residents contacted me and said, “We love this. We would love to have a gay softball league here in Vegas. How do we do it?” And I met with them and had quite a few meetings, long phone conversations and told them about how the LGBT softball circuit across the U.S. works, what to do to join the national organization and they used our Los Angeles Softball League as a model to get one going in Las Vegas. There are over 40 member cities in the national LGBT softball organization and all of these cities send athletes to different tournaments across the U.S. and Canada.

What makes Sin City Shootout so successful? What advice would you give to other LGBT events looking to thrive as much as yours does? From what the LVCVA [the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority] has told me, it’s Vegas’ largest LGBT tourist event, as far as the number of LGBT guests it draws. The biggest piece of advice I would give to other event planners trying to do something in Vegas is to just think about all Vegas has to offer and how their attendees would enjoy it. There’s shows, there’s clubs, there’s hotels. You have to think about all your attendees from A to Z and really look at that middle point that will get everybody to stay. One of Sin City Shootout’s biggest and best attributes that make it a success each year is having the majority of attendees in one host hotel. We have 1,400 rooms per night booked at the Tropicana. So 24 hours a day, anytime of the day, you leave your room and you see other LGBT guests in the lobby, casino, restaurants and bars. It just leads to that larger level of comfort that you may not get in a larger 4,000-5,000 room hotel. I see it every year: there’s guys and gals sitting at the blackjack tables and they just win a big hand and they lean over and give each other a big hug and a kiss. Well if they did that in one of the mainstream Strip hotels where we don’t have almost a complete buyout of the hotel, there might be some backlash, especially with the recent election. We want all our attendees to feel safe and feel comfortable and to be able to be themselves more than anything. And the Tropicana as a hotel has really opened its doors and allowed us to be ourselves within their property and, as much as they can, help us off their property with different venues and contacts and so forth.

Have you seen positive progression in regards to LGBT acceptance in Las Vegas over the last 10 years? Over the last 10 years, about every two months I make a planning trip to Las Vegas because it truly is a year of event planning and keeping up contacts and going to the city council meetings and meeting with all the parks and recreation departments in the Las Vegas region. 

Over the years, I’ve seen slight changes. But when we really don’t have a buyout of the hotel, there have been instances in the past where there have been little comments when two girls or guys were holding hands. And I truly want our athletes to feel comfortable, so that’s why a complete buyout of a hotel is great for us. I don’t hear as many comments when we’ve been around town, but you still see and feel the glances when you are holding hands with somebody walking through one of the other casinos, one of the other restaurants. Or we’ve checked in and there’s two of you and you ask for one king bed… I’ve felt that at other properties. So it’s gotten better, but it hasn’t completely gone away.

Events like Sin City Shootout that continue to redefine boundaries and bring that community and that understanding to the city of Las Vegas are really priceless. I think it’s important for people to see the value in what it does for us locally. Without a doubt. And to clarify – the hotels, the venues themselves, I have seen a tremendous increase in LGBT acceptance. The challenges around that acceptance don’t come from the properties or venues themselves in Las Vegas, They come from the fellow tourists, because they are drawing from every segment of the population worldwide to Las Vegas. And, as we know, there are many places here in our own country where we’re not accepted. So that’s where I see challenges for our attendees in town. 

Well fortunately the vast majority of the memories have been positive. It’s been remarkable to watch you grow from your first year to this point. I look forward to taking in this year’s edition of Sin City Shootout and the many more to come. Thank you so much. We’ll see everyone there. 

Sin City Shootout takes place from Jan. 12 to Jan. 15. 

For more information, visit
www.SinCityShootout.com.