Matthew Rettenmund is only kidding, but his enduring commitment to Madonna isn’t lost on him when he jokes, “She has me on speed hang-up.” It’s a statement that couldn’t ring truer if it were, well, true. 

Except Rettenmund, the author known for quenching your man-thirst via his site BoyCulture.com, doesn’t know Madonna like you know your mom or a Facebook friend or even the hot Starbucks barista you shamelessly stalk. He and Madonna have met, briefly, a few times, but they’re not musing introspectively on their way to Kabbalah classes, drafting, en route, a detailed plan for the icon’s next love-it-or-hate-it career conquest, though Rettenmund – who calls himself Madonna’s “front-row bitch” – would make an expert consultant. After all, he did document the life and times and first menstruation of Madge (actual entry: “Madonna first bled at age 10.”), when, two decades ago, he released Encyclopedia Madonnica 20: Madonna from A to Z. Now updated, this impressively crazy feat of fandom that goes deep (and deeper and deeper) into the pop empresses’ history is not just a book – when it comes to Madonna, it’s the Holy Bible. 

You must know more about Madonna than Madonna herself. 
I think that’s true. That’s not to brag, but just like a lot of people she seems to forget a lot of things about herself, and like a lot of stars enhances some things. I think I have more factoids than she’s ever kept at any one given time. 

When did you decide that you would dedicate the rest of your life to this woman?
I’m not dead yet! I can still give her up! (Laughs) I first became really interested when I first heard her on the radio. I have a very clear memory of it, and it was when I first heard “Holiday.”  I was obsessed with the Billboard charts at the time, and I remember driving back from a Dungeons & Dragons session and I heard this song and thought it was amazing. 

Of course it’s a cliché, but I thought she was a black girl. I really associate that song with “Let the Music Play” by Shannon because I was hearing them at the same time, and for some reason I was just so captivated by (“Holiday”) that I wanted to know more about her. 

I liked being surprised by her even in small ways back then, and I liked a lot of different stars. I really liked Cyndi Lauper first, and so it took a while for all my forces to coalesce around Madonna. I would say when “Like a Virgin” came out it really kind of started to hit its stride, and certainly by 1985 I had moved on from Cyndi Lauper and Madonna was my woman – she was my main woman. 

I found her really useful when I was talking to people too, because even back then I’d feel like when you were having a conversation about Madonna, it’s never just about Madonna – it’s about different suppositions and presets people have when they’re talking about her, and that’s not true of a lot of artists. She was kind of an icon from the beginning for that reason – she means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. She causes people to express things within themselves whether they intend to do it or not.

For me that was sexuality. I recall seeing the “Vogue” video and being awestruck that I could see boobage through that black lacey top. I associated Madonna with sex at a very young age. What facets of Madonna did you first cling to?  
Oh, I mean that was definitely part of it. But before that, it was just the coolness. That’s true of almost any person you put on a pedestal. There’s a cool factor. But Madonna always had a certain effortless coolness. She never questions herself. She reminded me of Andy Warhol in that way. She had tunnel vision about what she wanted to do, that she was gonna do it really well and that she was the person to do it. I really admired that. I liked that she was so decisive and really so cool.

The sex part came along quickly too. At the time, I was a teenager and had hormone flare-ups. And I was gay, and I just kind of felt that she was a kindred spirit. She’d come from Michigan where I came from – and where I’ll probably go when I die (laughs). I just loved knowing that she had come where I had come from and was doing all this stuff and was so unafraid to be so expressively sexual in a way that I couldn’t be, so I definitely used her as a mode of expression as we do with any star. It was easier to say, “I love Madonna,” than it was to go into the hundreds of things that were wrapped up in that. I definitely used her as a kind of shorthand, and I liked that she used her music and her work as a shorthand to communicate back to her fans. 

How old were you when you first fell for Madonna?
I was born in 1968, Christmas ’68, so I would’ve been 13. 

And is it true you have “literally over a ton” of memorabilia? 
I do have a big archive. Up till about 24 years old my rooms looked like they should be second-hand shops, but I did get over that pretty quickly. Now it’s all stashed away. So, if you walked into my apartment you’d know I like Madonna because there are three or four things on the wall, but they’re kind of tasteful, kind of cool high-end things, and then there’s a lot of other art. So it’s under control. 

Over the years I have let go of things. And that’s a hard thing to come to grips with if you’ve kind of devoted a lot of time to collecting anything. It does make you think, “Do I really wanna get rid of all this?” and then you think, “Geez, do I really wanna die with all of this?” 

What’s the first piece you ever owned? 
Oh, that’s a good question. I know what it is: If you don’t count music, I remember very clearly buying my first Madonna poster at probably a Sam Goody’s or maybe even Coconuts near Genesee Valley mall. It was a caricature picture of her from Desperately Seeking Susan, and it’s really not a very good shot. Herb Ritts did the shoot and they’re all amazing but I always thought this shot was a little weird. She looks a little greasy, a little matted down (laughs). But her face was amazing! The hair was just not quite right in this one shot. But I bought that poster, and that’s the one that replaced my Cyndi Lauper poster. In my opinion, Desperately Seeking Susan is one of the best things Madonna has ever been associated with. I love that movie. 

Even back then in Michigan when I had to drive around I had my routine where I would go to buy stuff and my approach to collecting was like that of a bug strip – anything that got close to me that had to do with Madonna was stuck to me and I kept it, or I found a way to get it. I wasn’t discriminatory at all. I bought music, I bought posters, I bought cheesy merchandise at stores. Old magazines, new magazines. For a long time I continued down that path. 

As you know, I’m a big Mariah fan and, in fact, I remember getting a life-size Mariah cardboard cutout from Sam Goody's. It was a hard day for me when I put it into storage in my late 20s.
But you didn’t get rid of it?
No, no. Of course not.
(Laughs) That’s actually worse when it gets to that level. That’s when you go to a whole new level of crazy. So congrats. 

Ha! Are you not at that level of crazy? You did write a 581-page book about Madonna that weighs four pounds. 
Oh, I’m way beyond that. But I could probably be persuaded by the right entity to give my archives away, to donate them somewhere if I thought it’d be kind of kept well and made available. I mean, I have tens of thousands of clippings from magazines and newspapers. When you collect anything you have to decide if you’re collecting it to make a profit or collecting it because you love it. 

For you, it’s because you love it, right? 
No, it’s just the money. (Laughs) No, I do love it. But I’m definitely not as crazy as I once was when it comes to collecting. If anything, I’ve gotten more successful in life and started making a little bit more money and deciding “I’m going to go to an auction! I’m going to buy something that she owns! I’m gonna buy a one-of-a-kind thing!” You bump up from getting the latest foreign magazine to crazy shit you never thought you’d be looking into. It gets worse before it gets better. 

How would you describe your level of fandom when it comes to Madonna? 
Front-row bitch. People always like to say, “I’m a crazy fan but I’m not crazy like that person,” but I don’t have a lot of wiggle room for that because I’ve written this huge book on her and people know me as someone who’s pretty far gone. But I would describe myself as someone who has complete respect and affection for Madonna, and the respect is very objective, and the affection is very subjective. I have a high level of both of those things, but I still think I’m able to be realistic, and I think that’s reflected in the book. As positive as it is, and as fawning as parts of it are, you do have to kind of step back and say, “This wasn’t so great, this let me down, this reveals a character flaw,” so I’m sort of a student of Madonna’s. 

You definitely did not fawn over her film career. 
Well, yeah. I think that’s a good way to tell if someone is too far gone as a fan: If they really like all of her movies. I think even she would admit that a lot of her movies were not good. She may not agree why. (Laughs) She might say it was the script, it was the director. But also, you weren’t so great in them. So much of the criticism she gets is just ridiculously over the top and it’s unfounded and so mired in people’s hang ups and expectations: the way women and the way older women and the way public figures should act and behave. I’m someone who’s extremely sensitive, and as confident as I can be, I take stuff to heart in a way, and I like the fact that she’s able to present an extremely determined public face. And as much as it probably does affect her in some ways, it doesn’t stop her. That’s inspiring. 

What compelled you to write this book 20 years ago? 
When I wrote the first book and when I decided to update it, the way I approached it is: It had to be two different things. On one hand it is a serious reference book, but on the other hand there’s a ridiculousness about the endeavor – that’s the point of it. It is a pop artifact. I want it to be kind of ridiculous that we have a 600-page encyclopedia about this person, about any person. 

I was inspired 20 years ago by a dictionary on Marilyn Monroe and that one was very straight-laced. Basically entries with all the different people and places and things about her. I really kicked it up a notch from that. But that was my inspiration. So: I’m the Lady Gaga and those writers are the Madonna. (Laughs) 

What does Madonna think of your book?
She loves it – no, I’m just kidding. I’ll tell you the truth: When I did the first book 20 years ago I approached her publicist to try to get them to potentially give me some information or help me out, and of course they ignored me. When the book came out, her publicist, Liz Rosenberg – and I’ll never forget it – called me at my new job and said, “I love this.” So I was thrilled that they liked it. What happened was they had me send a signed copy to Madonna and Madonna signed a copy for me. So she did see it and she was aware of it. But Madonna’s the kind of person who is not gonna be excited to hear that somebody wrote a book about her. She’s not gonna flip open a book and go, “Look at all this wonderful stuff he got right about me.” You just can’t picture that. 

Who would wanna read a book about themselves anyway? 
Nobody would, but especially someone who’s cool. She’d roll her eyes. This time around I did send it to her people again, got no negative feedback or anything. I haven’t gotten a signed copy this time, but I haven’t gotten a lawsuit either. If she gets it and flips through it – or maybe her kids would; I can imagine that happening more likely –I would hope she’d appreciate the affection that’s there.

Anything in the book that you’re uncomfortable with her seeing? 
I wouldn’t want her to read about plastic surgery or my guesses about plastic surgery or any kind of personal health things. I don’t think I would care about her reading any of my impressions of her work. She understands that people have criticisms, and unlike most people who review her I know that none of my reviews, even the ones that are negative, are outrageously off-base. They don’t come from a place of hating her.

Also, the last time, I was just some random kid doing a book and so nobody wanted to deal with me – except Allen Ginsberg… maybe because I was a young boy. But this time I was able to get some people to actually talk to me, and some of them said things that weren’t 100 percent positive, like the publicist from Desperately Seeking Susan who had a very long interview and I put in every word. I found it really fascinating because he really respected her and thought she was talented musically early on. He was very frank in saying that there were times when it wasn’t cool to be seen with him so she didn’t want to be seen with him and so she’d blow him off. 

This reminds me of the time we both interviewed Madonna in New York at the end of 2011, when, after I mentioned that people refer to her as the “queen of reinvention,” she snapped, telling me, “Don’t throw those tired, old clichés at me.” Which you note in your book! It’s forever immortalized. And you don’t even know how long that haunted me. I was happy to read that you thought Madonna was being “playful” with me, though.
I get it. I think when someone has that much power, any little swipe, any little movement can be taken so much more powerfully. I sort of took it as she assumed that you were on the team and so it was fine to kind of give you a little kitty cat swipe. 

Well, I’m glad. Aside from Madonna herself, you’d know best. 
She told me it’s fine... just kidding. (Laughs) But I know what you mean. Before I met her I always wondered: What if I meet her and she’s horrible to me? Would I claim that I thought that was cool and amazing too? Or would I be deeply sad? Obviously you wouldn’t want her to be a total asshole, but luckily I got to meet her under positive circumstances, where she knew I was a member of the press. It wasn’t like I was coming up to her on the street and saying, “Oh my gosh can I get your autograph?” which would be like suicide and you might as well just step in front of a car. 

Ha! Well, this has been great, Matthew. Thanks for the chat. 
I appreciate you taking the time and I hope you didn’t read the Mariah Carey entry. 

I did. It was the first entry I went to. 
Fuck.

I didn’t want to sour this experience, but now that you have...
I do think it’s important to have a healthy sense of bitchery, but I will say that the whole “stan wars” are tiresome when you get to be in your fucking 40s. It’s like, “I can’t read all this. There’s too many divas for me to hate.” Gaga fanatics would write me and say, “I hope you choke on your AIDS medications.” I loved that one. (Laughs) 

I definitely have commented on posts about things I disagree with, but I’ve never gone to somebody’s Lady Gaga or Mariah Carey page to just start shit and say, “My favorite is better than your favorite.” So pointless. Come on guys. Promote the things you like and don’t worry about the things you hate. 

The furry fandom community intrigues a lot of people. Unfortunately, this curiosity has not translated into a true education for most. There are a lot of persisting stereotypes and assumptions made about this community, many of them unfair. To get to the bottom of things, Gay Vegas spoke with King Elliott Ingonyama, who is organizing Elliott’s Spring Gathering in Las Vegas in early May.

Tell us a bit about furry fandom. How big is this phenomenon? It’s worldwide. There are events in the furry community in Europe, Asia, the United States, South America and Australia. It’s hard to know exactly how many people are involved. The largest conventions in the U.S. draw about 5,000 to 6,000 people. Maybe even 7,000 at this point. But not everybody goes to conventions. There are lots of people who are active in other ways. There are lots of different parts of the community. In general, the definition of the furry fandom is people interested in anthropomorphic characters. 

Many furries, not all, but many furries have a character that they associate with. They would call it a persona. That is really their alter ego.

You have anthropomorphic art. Think of characters that you would normally see as people but portrayed by animals, with all the animal characteristics. The idea basically is we look at animals and we sort of ascribe human characteristics to them. The art component of the furry community is those things drawn in that way. 

Another part of the community is fursuiters. Think of mascot costumes. Almost all of the fursuiters have characters that either they designed themselves or they worked with an artist to design. Sometimes that character is of their persona and sometimes it’s not. It’s a chance to role-play. You can be anonymous. It’s really for a lot of people quite a lot of fun to go out and just be a giant fuzzy bunny, or a kangaroo, or whatever. The reactions from people are often really quite amazing. When we were in Vegas preparing for the second Elliott’s Spring Gathering in Las Vegas, which was in 2013, we happened to be there during the National Finals Rodeo. We ended up with 15 people in costumes on Fremont Street dancing with about 2,000 cowboys and their girlfriends. And cowgirls as well. It was really just such a fun thing.

There’s also a third group of people who are definitely further on the edge of the community, but they’re certainly part of it, that believe that they’re really tied to some animal. At the far extreme of that part of the community are the people that believe they really were supposed to be or are a tiger, a raccoon, or whatever. They were just born in the wrong body. But all of these things exist in the community. 

This seems to be about personal development as well. Would you say the community helps its members discover what they like in a social environment? Absolutely. There are certainly people in the community that this is the first way they get to socialize. They were quiet or introverts in high school or elementary school. They were geeks and nerds, or a little bit socially awkward. And that’s not, of course, true for everybody. There are clearly people in the community that were very active, lots of friends in high school and super popular. It’s a whole range. I’ll say among the younger community, that’s much more the case. You’ll find that a lot of more of the people who are getting involved today for whom it’s just another interest. And the Internet does make this stuff easier. The Internet has made all of these subcultures easy to find for people. A lot of the people involved in the community are very net-savvy and they’re very tied to the net. In the same way, the Internet really helped the young gay community. Twenty years ago, things like bulletin board systems made it easier for young gay men, or teenagers even, to connect with other people and to recognize that they weren’t the only ones. With the wider Internet, the furry community is very much connected too. And a lot of the early connections for the furry community were through anime conventions or science fiction conventions. It really has developed into its own culture now. For many of these people, it’s the first social experience they’ve had where they can really feel like they’re being themselves. Part of it is a little bit escapist, but it also lets you express yourself among people that are willing to be tolerant. 

An average fursuit can cost $5,000. What kind of people are in this subculture that can afford what it entails? There seem to be a whole range of people. The simplest group and easiest to define are the guys in tech. A lot of the stereotypes come from this. But the community has a lot of gay men who have high paying jobs and this is a diversion for them. The fursuits, there are certainly people that have multiple of them. Many people will save for a long time to get one. But you also have some people who have four and five and more. Some people make them themselves. In fact, there are some of the first fursuit makers who will make suits for other fursuiters. There’s a little bit of trading in that respect. But we also have people on the other end of the socioeconomic spectrum and the proverbial basement dwellers. The people who are still in their parents’ basement. You have the whole range. We know a neurosurgeon. We know a number of lawyers. We know a number of entrepreneurs in other areas. It’s a pretty broad space. 

According to four different surveys, it’s been found that 14 to 25 percent of furry fandom members are gay, and 37 to 52 percent identify as bisexual. And then 28 to 51 percent are straight. Why do you think that is? I think there are a lot of possible reasons. This is all speculation on our part, but I would say that the biggest part of it is that it’s a very welcoming community. If you’re newly discovering your identity, it would very much be a place where it’s easy to do that. Connected with the anonymity of the fursuit or the anonymity of the avatars, all of those things help. So if you’re in a place where you’re not really comfortable being gay or bisexual, you get a chance to meet people in a way that you don’t have to start out by providing them your real face picture. In the furry community, the picture that you give them first and maybe the only picture that they ever see you as is your character. So that’s a much more comfortable thing, especially if you’re in a part of the country where it’s not as easy to be out and be gay.

It must be nice too, because since it’s not about the physical it’s a lot less superficial.

KEEP READING HERE

The “shred” will put you through the sweat fires of hell, but despite her extreme workouts, Jillian Michaels wants you to know she is no monster. To set the record, ahem, straight, the out fitness guru is opening the doors to her very “normal,” sometimes-emotional, not-at-all-what-you-thought life during E!’s Just Jillian, where she laughs (you read that right) and… cries?!

Yes, that Jillian Michaels – the Butt Kicker from The Biggest Loser – cries actual human tears.

As if that revelation wasn’t enough, there were many more made during this recent chat with Michaels, who talked about her reputation being “destroyed” by The Biggest Loser, why she uses the word “fag” and how, after a long road to self-acceptance, Madonna empowered her to confront her sexuality.

After watching Just Jillian, a lot of people will be surprised to find out that you’re not who they thought you were.

Very much so, yeah. Here’s what I love about it: Everyone is like, why would you do this? And they have these preconceived notions about reality shows and all this drama and, “It’s all fake and it’s all mean spirited,” and that’s not at all why I wanted to open up my life. I feel like the comedy of errors as we go about our daily routine, honestly, is quite enjoyable. And everybody has the same struggles, right? Whether it’s in their work, marriage, family, parenting, as a friend, you go on this journey where you laugh and you cry, and hopefully you learn something with the characters on the show. For me, in my career, it’s always been “Jillian’s the fitness guru,” but the bigger conversation is using fitness as a tool to help somebody build a better life.

Was being out on TV – with a family, even: your partner, Heidi Rhoades, and your two children – something you ever imagined for yourself?

You know, it’s interesting that you ask that. I know I’m sort of in that very pivotal generation, right? I’m on the younger end of Gen X, and for me, growing up gay was not cool. Gay was gross. Gay was despicable. People said the word “faggot.” People said “dyke” – I heard that a lot in high school. And it was very scary. I have watched as a people and as a country and a culture over the course of my teenage-into-adulthood life and I do still think there is a tremendous amount of homophobia that exists. And I’ve never been out there with my gay flag; I wanted to take an approach of, “Hey, I don’t need to win you over and I don’t need to fight with you and I don’t want to combat you.” But what I do hope is that people observe me, observe my family, and go, “Oh my god, this isn’t at all what I thought it was. This is actually pretty similar to my family; they’re going through things that my family goes through.” And that’s always been my approach. I don’t need to make these big statements. I’m just going to live my life and my truth and hopefully as you observe that it will become a little more – and I have so much trouble with this word – normalized for people who don’t perceive it as the norm.

I was struck by the use of “queer” in the show. Some people who are older than us hear queer and still find it offensive, whereas our generations have embraced the term as being all-encompassing of any sexual orientation that isn’t straight. Where do you stand on labels? Do you have a preference?

What’s interesting is, I take a very African-American-using-the-“n-word” approach with those terms. I’ve claimed them all. I use “homo” and joke about it. I use “dyke” and joke about it. My gay male friends and I use “fag” and joke about it. We’ve taken them all back and made them our own.

What we’ve tried to do is take some of the venom out of the terms by reclaiming them – and I hate to draw this reference – but in the same way the black community has taken back the “n-word.” We don’t allow them to harm us or hurt us and there could be a whole psychology about why we do, but we all do. It’s like, I own these words, they’re my words, and I’ve suffered enough to be able to take them on and wear them with pride, so to speak. None of those words actually have any venom in them for me anymore and I don’t really care who’s swinging them at me – it doesn’t mean anything to me. People can judge it but that’s just something that I’ve done and it is what it is.

What is the biggest misconception about you?

God, I mean, it’s the obvious. And I hate the obvious and I think it’s cliché, but I think people never really understood The Biggest Loser. The Biggest Loser was a life or death intervention that existed on a ticking clock on top of which you would see 45 minutes of a television show which is shot over 10 days and so you never saw what I was doing, why I was doing it, what else I was doing, the end result of what I was doing. The intentions were never displayed and it was far more entertaining to have a good guy and a bad guy, and I think some people really saw through that and that’s great; some people did not and that’s that.

But what is kind of cool about this show – and it is so appropriately named Just Jillian – is you see just me, and it’s the good, the bad, the ugly. I’m a very real person. So, for those who have idealized me, they’ll be disappointed (laughs); for those who’ve hated me all these years, I think they’ll be surprised.

Do you regret doing The Biggest Loser?

Good question. There’s this Latin quote that I heard and it summarizes The Biggest Loser perfectly: “That which nourishes me also destroys me.” I’m super grateful for the platform I was given. Obviously I owe everything I have to that diving board, that jumping-off point. But there does come a point where you definitely overstay your welcome, where something starts to become more limiting, it starts to do more harm than it does good, and that was definitely a source of frustration for me. I don’t think it’s a secret – I have been vocal about it – but to say that I’m not grateful for the opportunity and for all it’s done for me would be obtuse, absurd and obnoxious, but I’m not gonna lie and say it didn’t also cost me a host of problems on the backend.

Now, I’m hoping this show is really just my best foot forward and the thing is, I am sarcastic and I am obnoxious but I’m also loving and I’m also passionate and I’m also caring and I’m all those things. At least now if people hate me, they’ll hate me for a legitimate reason – that I’m really excited about! (Laughs) At least they’ll hate me for a reason that’s real.

And unless those tears are CGI, you cry. Quite a bit, in fact. Actual human tears, I think.

(Laughs) No, no, no. It’s just tear-gas shit they sprayed at me during the interviews.

You’ve been called a bully to overweight people and I know that must be hard to hear for somebody who was bullied.

I know, I know.

What does that feel like?

It’s a shame. For somebody who comes to an environment where they’re literally committing suicide with food, let’s cut the shit. Some of them are 400 or 500 pounds, they’re killing themselves with food and the amount of time they have left is five or 10 years; if they’re lucky, 15. It’s suicide with food. In some cases I would have a week with one of these people, so I will try everything under the sun, but if I can’t do it with hugs, love and kisses, then I’m gonna do what it takes. What people should really pay attention to is, I was less concerned with being likable than getting done what I needed to get done.

So this goes back to the whole “I didn’t know Jillian Michaels was sensitive” thing, but you’re a fan of Tori Amos, which we discover in the first episode. That is some deep sensitivity. What kind of influence did she and her music have on you? And what Tori song got you through your teen years?

God, so many of them. I was very much that kind of bullied emo kid. And a lot of teenagers go through that emo phase and it manifests in different incarnations for every generation, but in some of those darker moments during that very kind of impressionable and pivotal part of my life, her music was something I could really relate to, especially “Cornflake Girl.” She’s sort of the outcast, and that whole song was, to me, about being an outcast, being on the outside. Or “Silent All These Years” where she finally finds her voice. And it took me a long time. As much as I’m very outspoken now, I wasn’t always so. I didn’t always have that inner sense of strength and authenticity and passion. I was extremely shut down and shamed – and geez, there are so many. “Past the Mission.” I could go on and on. “China.” Literally on and on.

When did you find your voice?

It was a series of things… it was a process. Basically it was a combination of getting involved in martial arts and having these small successes within martial arts, which empowered me to start taking steps in my personal life, in my relationships, in my professional life, and then, honestly, when it comes to accepting my sexuality – I didn’t even know I was (gay) until later in life.  I mean, I realized I was bisexual at about 18 but I didn’t even realize I was gay until into my 20s.

I think what helped that, and I know this sounds ridiculous, but Madonna and her “Justify My Love” video made a really big difference for my generation because (being gay) wasn’t something that was disgusting and gross – just something that became cool overnight, thanks to Madonna. That allowed me to feel less ashamed – it became almost cool to explore it – and, unfortunately or fortunately, that exploration was not just an exploration, it wasn’t just me experimenting. It turns out that was what was going on with me throughout all my teenage years. I really didn’t know. I really thought something was wrong with me. I didn’t know that I liked women, but I knew I didn’t like men. I knew when I was a kid I didn’t want to be physical with my boyfriends. Didn’t wanna make out with them. I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with me.

Then when I became 18 and I was kissed by a girl, like a Katy Perry song, I shit you not, I was like, “Oh my god, this is what’s been going on all these years.” The light bulb went off in me and I’m like, “I’ve been fucking gay this whole time,” and I, honest to god, was in such deep denial that I had no idea until that moment.

Thanks Madonna!

Honestly, you’re absolutely right.

Are you gonna end up getting married on this show? Are we gonna see that?

You gotta watch! Have to watch. That’s all I’m gonna say. And here’s the thing, because another journalist who’s gay was like, “Don’t you think that you’re disrespecting the right we all fought for?” And here’s my answer: We fought for the right to choose and so therefore it’s my choice to say, you know, I’ve had some bad experiences with marriage. (Laughs)

How do you feel about comments like that?

Again, I hate to reference the African-American community again, but the reality is that gay rights is the civil rights movement of today, right? Women have fought for rights. The African-American community has fought for rights. Every minority has fought for rights. This really is our moment for the gay community – the LGBT-whatever, put all the letters in there. With that said, Malcolm X didn’t like Martin Luther King; there’s always a lot of kind of inciting as progress is being made as to how we need to go about making that progress, so I think being a public gay figure, there’s always a lot of criticism about what I say, what I didn’t say, how I did it, how I didn’t do it. If I live my life to make all these people happy, that’s obviously an impossibility – can’t please everybody all the time – so I live my life in my truth. I hope it’s enough. I hope that it’s enough for me and for my family, and that’s really all I can do.

“I want you to smell me.”

It’s not your typical conversation starter, sure, but Orange Is the New Black star Dascha Polanco does smell nice, like fresh flowers. Seated in a New York City hotel suite to talk about her new film, Joy, the 32-year-old actress invites me to cozy up next to her, because then, she jokes, I can experience the fact that “not only is she beautiful but she also smells delicious.”

It’s weird seeing you out of an orange jumpsuit.

Is it?! I love the fact that I got to play with decades: the ’70s, ’80s, ’90s. But it’s two totally different worlds, TV and film.

What’s that transition been like for you?

Professionally, it’s always welcome (laughs). It’s a new challenge. It’s a new area of acting and being able to be play with characters and stories more creatively. I think with (director) David O. Russell and this project, it was intimidating.

Because it’s David O. Russell?

David O. Russell. Jennifer Lawrence. Bradley Cooper. Robert De Niro. Diane Ladd. Virginia Madsen. Isabella Rossellini. You just want to make sure you have your A-game on, and for a Latina being in this industry for the last three years, it takes you by surprise.

How does being Latina change things?

Well, there are not many Latin actors in Hollywood. There’s still a lower percentage of them breaking into Hollywood, but we're seeing more diversity, especially with David O. Russell’s film. You’re seeing diversity there, to that caliber, and for me, that’s a big responsibility.

There’s been a lot of talk about diversity in Hollywood lately, and not just when it comes to race, but when it comes to women. And this movie is very –

Female driven.

It is. It’s all about female empowerment. It has a feminist message. How does that personally strike a chord with you?

I can relate so much to the story and to the elements of the movie: having obstacles in your life, being a woman and having to be a parent, having to be a daughter, taking care of not only your personal self but also your family. It shows how much women throughout the years have been the backbone and have, at times, struggled to even take a risk or try to live their dream or move forward because of other commitments or because of the stigma that we are supposed to be at home.

From the perspective of someone who is Latina in Hollywood: What is the current state of finding roles in Hollywood for a minority?

I thought to myself for the last two years: I’ve gone on auditions – so many auditions – in comparison to when I first started. Maybe it’s because of Orange, maybe it’s because of my representation, but there’s a need, a desire now. You see more offers, you see more shows that want to include diversity because of the success of shows like Orange Is the New Black. Anybody could’ve been cast as Jackie in Joy, and that’s the beauty of it. The role that I play, anyone could have, but he didn’t make it exclusive (and say), “I’m gonna make Jackie a white actress.” No. She’s ambiguous. She can be black. She can be Spanish. The fact that this is a Golden Globe-nominated movie – ah, it takes me by surprise that I’m part of this project, not because I don’t have the potential, not because I don’t believe in myself – but because of what, historically, I’ve seen growing up. And now that I’m part of it, there’s hope and there’s an opportunity that was rendered that I’m not taking for granted.

You credit Orange Is the New Black for diversifying TV.  What does it mean to you to be a part of that movement?

We have to look at a movie like Joy for a minute, and I’m going to talk about how it includes LGBT. It’s funny: I’m very supportive of the LGBT because I have family, I have friends, and they’re a big part of my life – and even so, I respect a human regardless of what their sexual orientation is, or who they feel they are. It has nothing to do with LGBT, or that I have a friend who is. It’s human to accept another human. Not everybody thinks that way. But you see a character like Joy who’s trying to just be… . She’s trying to belong, she’s trying to accomplish her dreams; she can be a mother, she can be a wife or a divorcee and not have the backlash, because there’s so much backlash in the movie. There are so many obstacles. “You’re a woman and you can’t do that.” And I’m pretty sure the LGBT community can relate to that. So whether she was a lesbian or not, it has nothing to do with that – it’s about her feeling like she’s part of something and building her empire.

Because anybody can see themselves in Joy.

Exactly.

When it comes to Orange Is the New Black, how do you feel about being a part of a show that embraces inclusivity?

I’m proud! So proud. It’s done a lot for the gay community around the world. It shows how much the industry might be oblivious to what’s needed, but the fans and the viewership have just been so boisterous and open to all these different sexual orientations – to transgender. There’s so much more acceptance, and that’s the beauty of it. We, (show creator) Jenji (Kohan), the actors, the story – we took all we had and the essence and being underdogs and being self-made and coming from nowhere and that passion and brought a project that everyone can relate to. That’s what’s succeeding now – when you have a project that everybody can relate to. We have Joy now. Anybody can watch the movie and I guarantee they’ll walk out of the theater and want to take over the world.