Local man charged with plot to bomb gay club, synagogue
- September 2, 2019 - 6:31pm
A Las Vegas man has been charged with plotting a bomb attack on a gay club and a synagogue.
According to the FBI, security guard Conor Climo, 23, was found to be in possession of bomb-making materials and was "communicating with individuals who identified with a white supremacist extremist organization using the National Socialist Movement to promote their ideology.”
“Threats of violence motivated by hate and intended to intimidate or coerce our faith-based and LGBTQ communities have no place in this country,” Nicholas Trutanich, U.S. Attorney for Nevada, said in a news release.
“Law enforcement in Nevada remains determined to use the full weight of our investigative resources to prevent bias-motivated violence before it happens.”
Reports The Advocate:
The Las Vegas Joint Terrorism Task Force first started investigating communications between Climo and the neo-Nazi, white supremacist group Atomwaffen Division. FBI officials say that group has a history of targeting minorities, homosexuals and Jews.
Throughout 2019, Climo engaged in encrypted communications with the groups, the FBI said. Authorities say he frequently used homophobic, anti-Semitic and racial slurs. He specifically discussed attacking a synagogue and a Fremont Street club catering to an LGBTQ clientele. The FBI would not specifically identify either potential target.
ABC News further reports that while authorities looked through Climo’s home, they allegedly “found a sketch outlining two ‘infantry squads’ attacking the Fremont Street bar with firearms.”
Since his arrest, video of Climo’s 2016 television interview with KTNV has resurfaced. In it, he discussed patrolling the Centennial Hills neighborhood. On hand he had an AR-15 assault rifle and four magazines that each contained 30 rounds of ammunition.
The latest development in this case, according to a court document, is that Climo also sketched out plans to target a McDonald’s restaurant. “The defendant talked about the attack as a suicide mission,” U.S. Magistrate Judge Nancy Koppe wrote in a detention order.
Climo was arrested on Aug. 8. He is looking at up to 10 years in prison, plus a $250,000 fine.
Las Vegas dad takes on Mormon Church after son’s suicide
- September 2, 2019 - 6:26pm
Brian Bresee of Las Vegas is challenging the Mormon Church after his teen son’s suicide, which Bresee attributes to the institution’s anti-LGBT teachings and culture.
“Bullying is part of the reason Samuel Bresee, who identified as straight, took his own life five years ago at the age of 14, says his father Brian Bresee... The intractable policies and homophobic beliefs practiced and preached by the Church of Latter-Day Saints is another,” writes the Los Angeles Blade.
The trouble started for Samuel when the family moved to a new neighborhood in Las Vegas and he befriended some non-Mormon boys. He invited his new friends to his Boy Scouts meeting at the family’s new Mormon congregation, where the joy didn’t last long.
The 14-year-old boys from church had been calling one of Samuel’s new friends “f*ggot” at school, “to the point where this young man was actually suicidal,” Bresee told the Blade. Upon seeing them at church, that friend hid behind Samuel, who defended him.
“They made our son their new target and they started calling him f*ggot,” said Bresee. “This is something that got spread to his school and online in online chats.”
Bresee shared that being labeled a “f*ggot” is one of the worst things you can be called as a young man in a Mormon context.
What’s more, this father is also calling out a controversial Mormon practice called the “worthiness” interview.
“As soon as a child turns 12 years old, every six months or sometimes even more often, they’re called into the Bishop’s office and asked about every sexual question that you could possibly think of,” explained Bresee.
“Imagine if you are a child at 12, 13, 14 years old, and you’re starting to discover your body, and you’re starting to feel an attraction to the same sex, and this is a sin next to murder. And the Bishop is asking are you having homosexual feelings and maybe you are so now, this child is in great danger of being outed for their sexual preference, long before they’re ready to share that.”
Bresee is currently “looking at possible legislation to help children better report what he considers religiously-based child sexual abuse.”
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On Sept. 7, from 10am to 1pm, The Stop It Foundation, created in Samuel’s honor, and the Child-Friendly Faith Project, an organization that raises awareness about child abuse in the religious world, are sponsoring the Hike to Protect Every Child and a barbecue at Lone Mountain Regional Park.
“GLOW” comes to Vegas, provides more gay characters
- September 2, 2019 - 6:18pm
The third season of Netflix’s “GLOW” was recently released, and this time the wrestling dramedy has made a home in Las Vegas.
It’s a move that makes sense, with the original show it’s inspired by, “GLOW: Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling,” having had its entire run in Sin City.
“GLOW” stars Alison Brie and Betty Gilpin amongst a large and talented cast. In season 3, which launched on Aug. 9, the wrestlers have moved to the fictional Fan-Tan Hotel & Casino – “about $200 east” of the Strip, according to one character.
“Vegas feels like a very tricky place for women in 1986, so that felt really interesting to us,” co-creator Liz Flahive told the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “But we wanted to get it right, and we wanted the details of being a performer living and working in Vegas to feel real and to feel very authentic.”
Writes the paper:
Flahive and co-creator Carly Mensch, self-described “research nerds,” led a group of around 20 members of the show’s writing staff on a three-day fact-finding mission to Las Vegas. Their itinerary included stops at Grant Philipo’s Las Vegas Showgirl Museum, “Vegas! The Show” and the old “Jubilee!” dressing rooms at Bally’s.
Perhaps the most interesting storyline to come out of their fact-finding mission was one inspired by local LGBTQ historian Dennis McBride, who informed the creators of legendary female-impersonator Kenny Kerr.
Writes the Review-Journal:
The late “Boy-lesque” star was “100 percent” the inspiration for Fan-Tan headliner Bobby Barnes (Kevin Cahoon), Mensch says. The drag performer, whom the wrestlers befriend, allowed “GLOW” to look at the struggle for acceptance that gay performers faced in Las Vegas in the 1980s.
“The seeming permissiveness,” Flahive says, “contrasted against the conservatism was intriguing to us. … It’s seemingly a very sexually open town, yet the sodomy laws were kind of not off the books and Liberace wasn’t even out — and the next year would die of AIDS.”
But this isn’t the first time “GLOW” has entered into LGBTQ territory. Season 2 of the series showed a blossoming lesbian relationship between Arthie "Beirut the Mad Bomber” Premkumar (Sunita Mani) and Yolanda “Yo-Yo” Rivas (Shakira Barrera).
Cara Delevingne and Ashley Benson spark Vegas wedding rumors
- September 2, 2019 - 6:10pm
Sorry folks: supermodel Cara Delevingne and actress Ashley Benson did not get married in Las Vegas.
But that certainly seemed to be the case in early August, when British newspaper The Sun on Sunday ran with the story that the two were married by an Elvis impersonator earlier this year at the Little Vegas Chapel on Las Vegas Boulevard. The paper even went as far as interviewing Michael Kelly, the chapel’s owner.
“They were sure about what they are doing and they were sure about what they mean to each other,” he said. “They were clearly devoted to each other and they had the biggest smiles on their faces.”
“You could see that they were serious about what they were doing but having the most fun. They wanted it simple, quiet and easy.”
Since then, however, E! News broke the news that the couple actually took part in a friendship ceremony.
How can they be so sure? “No marriage license for the two was found in Las Vegas public records.”
The Sun on Sunday’s timing was impeccable though, as just a month before the famous couple were spotted in Saint-Tropez wearing gold bands.
There’s been no official comment from either of the two on the matter, but Benson’s mom Shannon did chime in on Instagram: "How easy it is for so many of us today to be undoubtedly full of information yet fully deprived of accurate information."
Delevingne and the Pretty Little Liars actress went public with their relationship in June, after about a year of dating, in honor of Pride Month.
Las Vegas-hosted WNBA All-Star Game being praised
- September 2, 2019 - 6:03pm
The 2019 WNBA All-Star Game was hosted in Las Vegas on July 27, and its LGBTQ presence was strongly felt.
The Women’s National Basketball Association is no stranger to Sin City, what with the Las Vegas Aces playing in the league. In fact, the Aces’ Kayla McBride, Liz Cambage, and A’ja Wilson (who captained Team Wilson) made the All-Star roster, again playing on the same team.
Now, the WNBA has always been known for its strong queer presence on the court, with this year’s All-Star Game being no exception. Amongst several out athletes at the Mandalay Bay Events Center, Brittney Griner and Elena Delle Donne (captain of Team Delle Donne) took part.
But the league has also always been just as queer off the court, with a signative fanbase amongst queer women. This year we saw that this even includes famous faces, like soccer star Megan Rapinoe and her girlfriend, Sue Bird (herself a famed basketball player).
All in all, over 9,000 people attended a game that saw Team Wilson beat Team Delle Donne 129-126. Indiana Fever guard Erica Wheeler, of Team Wilson, was named the game’s MVP.
A thrilling game, no doubt, but many were just as excited by what they saw leading up to it. Writes Think Progress:
The host city really pulled out all the stops. Walking around Vegas, there were signs for the All-Star Game everywhere, from billboards to casino walls to public transportation. And none of them included inspirational slogans, the color pink, or rhetoric about supporting women. They weren’t focused on sex appeal, either. The ads just showcased the faces of the most elite women’s basketball players in the world, along with the name, date, and time of the event. Simple, and effective.
The publication also praised how the All-Star Game in Las Vegas saw increased acceptance for lesbian, bisexual, and/or gender nonconforming individuals.
In Las Vegas... married Chicago Sky teammates Allie Quigley and Courtney Vandersloot were both All-Stars. They walked the orange carpet together, and were interviewed about playing against each other. It was wonderful to see their relationship out in the open and celebrated. But it was also wonderful that this was just a fun side story to the main event, a basketball game between the best players in the world.
D'Anne's Creep: Log Cabin Republicans
- September 2, 2019 - 5:11pm
A day after it was announced that the Trump Administration was planning on making it easier for federal contractors to discriminate against LGBTQ workers, the Log Cabin Republicans did the only thing that made sense: they endorsed him wholeheartedly.
In a very out-of-touch opinion piece in the Washington Post, LCR Chair Robert Kabel and Vice Chair Jill Homan wrote, “Since taking office, President Trump has followed through on many of his commitments to the United States, including taking bold actions that benefit the LGBTQ community.”
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?
Trump’s administration is the most anti-LGBTQ, like, ever. He’s appointed a score of anti-LGBTQ judges, kicked transgender service members to the curb, endorses anti-LGBTQ candidates, supports so-called “religious freedom” laws that are a pass for discriminating against LGBTQ employees and customers. That’s just a partial list. He is literally working to undo every gain LGBTQ people made under President Obama.
But please, LCR chairs, do enlighten me about his “bold actions that benefit the LGBTQ community.”
Trump has “committed to end the spread of HIV/AIDS in 10 years, through the use of proven science, medicine and technology,” they write.
First of all, the distrust of science by Republicans has only accelerated under President “Windmills Cause Cancer” Trump. Republicans also have vowed to do away with the Affordable Care Act, which includes protections for pre-existing conditions like HIV/AIDS, not to mention the fact that the ACA has allowed many people to access care who previously were unable to get insurance. Oh, and there’s the fact that many of Trump’s supporters in the religious right still believe that AIDS is God’s punishment and that gays are subhuman and sex-crazed and need to pray to Jesus to make them straight. So spare me the “Trump is going to end AIDS” bullshit.
Kabel and Homan also claim that “Trump has used the United States’ outsize global influence to persuade other nations to adopt modern human rights standards, including launching an initiative to end the criminalization of homosexuality.”
Ah yes, no doubt other countries are looking to the U.S. for pointers on how to elevate human rights standards. Maybe the globe will be inspired by how Trump has earned the adoration of literal Nazis and helped to embolden white supremacist terrorists. Or maybe they are jealous of our “guns are more important than human lives” policies. Surely the world is impressed that Trump is cracking down on asylum seekers and immigrants by taking their children and locking them in baby jails with no plans for how to reunite these families.
Actually, Kabel and Homan likely see his treatment of immigrants as a plus.
“His hard line on foreign policy has protected LGBTQ lives,” they claim.
Trump’s foreign policy has protected LGBTQ lives? Was it when he tried to goad North Korea’s Kim Jong Un into war via Twitter? Or was it when he scrapped the Iran nuclear deal and seemed hip to go to war with them, too? Was it when he declared that Russia, a country that has extremely punitive anti-gay laws, was America’s BFF? The fact is, Trump’s policies have made Americans less safe at home and abroad. We are literally the laughingstock of the world because we have such a supremely stupid and vile president. Trump makes the nation weak.
Kabel and Homan also claim that Trump’s “tax cuts have benefited LGBTQ families and helped put food on their tables” and his “aggressive negotiations on trade deals have preserved LGBTQ jobs.”
Sure, Jan.
If you’re wondering why LCR would embrace such a destructive and hateful administration, Kabel and Homan make the argument that things aren’t as bad as they were, therefore they’re good as they are.
“For LGBTQ Republicans, watching the 2016 GOP convention before Donald Trump took the stage was like a dream fulfilled,” they wrote. “The distance between that event and Pat Buchanan’s hate-filled exhortation against the LGBTQ community in Houston in 1992 is a powerful measurement of how far we’ve come.”
Ah. So because the GOP put gay billionaire Peter Thiel on stage at their convention instead of hate troll Pat Buchanan all is well and good? Regardless of who they put on stage, the Republican platform for 2016 was the most anti-LGBTQ platform ever. Even worse than in 1992. Just because the GOP realized that public homophobic hate is a bad look doesn’t mean they don’t still embrace it in private and enact policies that advance their anti-LGBTQ agenda.
Look, just because you’re in a relationship where your partner used to punch you in the face on the regular but now only slaps you sometimes doesn’t mean your relationship has gotten better. And yet here are the Log Cabin Republicans not only accepting their abuse but praising their abuser. And that hurts all of us who are in this relationship involuntarily and desperately want to break up.
Actress Jillian Bell Talks Gay Running Friends and Her Plan to Showcase More LGBTQ Stories
- September 2, 2019 - 4:42pm
Rest assured, I’m not spoiling anything when I say Jillian Bell runs a lot in “Brittany Runs a Marathon.” All that sweat and all those tears aren’t exactly taken from the 35-year-old actress’ life – in case you hadn’t noticed, this is about Brittany and her running – but it could very well metaphorically dovetail with Bell’s career and the infinite miles she’s clocked to get to her own finish of sorts: a starring role.
For her first lead part in a film, Bell portrays out writer-director Paul Downs Colaizzo’s real-life best friend in his heartfelt debut feature, which won the Audience Award at the Sundance Film Festival in February. When we first meet Brittany, her life is in shambles. Landlord issues, job issues, friend issues, and according to her doctor, a less-than-ideal BMI issue. So she runs. Short jaunts at first, then longer, steadier stretches. But as she trains for a marathon, Brittany learns that self-acceptance and personal growth aren’t just the result of going the literal distance.
Starring concurrently in bisexual director Lynn Shelton’s “Sword of Trust,” which premiered recently at SXSW, Bell’s credits also include a smattering of comedic TV series like Comedy Central’s “Workaholics” and “Idiotsitter.” Film-wise, she starred alongside Scarlett Johansson and Kate McKinnon in the bachelorette-party-gone-wrong farce “Rough Night” and “22 Jump Street,” her mainstream breakthrough, playing the scene-stealing, deadpanning rival to Channing Tatum and Jonah Hill’s doofus cop duo.
Bell phoned recently to chat about wine runs with a dear gay friend, shooting a scene with Bob the Drag Queen and her commitment to telling LGBTQ stories.
In real life, do you have any gay friends who’d run a marathon with you?
(My friend) Kyle would actually be amaaaazing at running a marathon. He would be cheering the entire time. The only thing: He would want to stop midway to just grab a little bit of rosé, which would make us very sick for the rest of the marathon.
Conveniently, he might already have that in his Hydro Flask as you run.
You know the ones that are attached to the hat and you just slurp out of them? That would be Kyle’s situation. But he’d be a blast. We’d have so much fun. We’d probably laugh the whole time.
Do you have LGBTQ friends in your life who’ve pushed you to be a better version of yourself in the way that Brittany’s gay friend, Seth, does in the film?
Absolutely. One of my best friends is Fortune Feimster. She’s hysterical. She is the coolest friend of mine. We did (the Groundlings’) Sunday Company together and then we ended up living next to each other in apartments. Then, when she moved into a house, I moved into a house nearby. I keep telling her I’m stalking her for the rest of her life.
She’s had me on her podcast and we’ve talked a lot about our careers because we’ve both been very blessed to have some great stuff happen. She’s always encouraging me; I’m always encouraging her. And she’s kind of my touchstone of someone who just makes me very, very happy. I think she’s been so smart in her career – the decisions that she’s made and what she’s decided to do and what it says about her – and she’s one of my best friends and I’m a big fan of hers.
I love Seth and how supportive he is of Brittany – but what I really love is that he’s not just the token gay best friend. He also has a whole, full life of his own. Remember when gay characters only existed in films for the sake of the female protagonist? This feels like progress.
I know, I know. This was written by Paul and he is a gay man, and the character he wrote that was basically inspired by his own story is Seth. This is sort of a love story for her of what she went through and how she achieved these goals, and Seth is a very important character in this movie. He’s always so positive and encouraging, and you’re right: He’s seen in the light that is different from a lot of films as the gay best friend. I think that that is such a wonderful and important thing.
And of all the families portrayed in the film, he seems to have the most together, stable family unit.
Yeah, he’s married, he has a kid, and all he wants is to have another kid and get in better shape in his life and he’s doing great. He’s a successful human being and that is important to showcase in film. It makes me really sad when it isn’t and so I’m just happy that our film is a part of doing something hopefully right.
Do you find that gay male directors have a special way or a different sensibility when it comes to telling a female-centered story?
I can only speak to my relationship with Paul and how we worked together, and there were moments where we would just cry together and moments of great strength. And we had moments where we would laugh till we were on the floor. We just had each other to lean on throughout this whole process, and it was a big bonding moment. Not only was he doing this almost for the second time in his life, because it’s about his real-life best friend, but it was his first film that he was directing and that he wrote, so that was a huge achievement. We just had a really strong connection and we both were very passionate from the beginning about this story and how we weren’t sure if people would get it. We’re so excited now that, for the most part, people are understanding what this story is about. That makes both of us very happy.
Before you began filming, you said it was going to be very challenging because of how the movie deals with women’s perception of their bodies. But you also were hoping it might be more therapeutic than difficult. Well, you’ve done the film. Was filming this like therapy?
You know what? Both kind of happened. And I was expecting that. Sometimes you spiral out after these things, sometimes it’s therapeutic. It was both, but in a healthy way. It just sort of made me look at my relationship with my own body and how I was talking about myself. I can only speak from my perspective, but sometimes you’ll look at other people, some of your best friends, and think, “Oh, they’re all wonderful and beautiful and lovely and smart,” and then you’ll go home and you’ll say awful things to yourself that you would never say about anyone else. I just felt like this movie hits on that and how society treats you but also how you treat yourself. What it feels like to choose yourself for the first time.
By doing this project I also felt like I was choosing my own marathon – I was running my own marathon here. I didn’t really want to address (these themes) in either film or television unless it was doing it right, and this is the first film that I read that was sort of a transformation story, but it wasn’t like “girl gets skinny, girl has a better life.” To me, that’s very important to put out there for women andmen. I shouldn’t say I’m surprised, but it’s been overwhelming how many men relate to that and how difficult it is when you’re not. You don’t come out looking like Adonis. It’s a lot.
By the end of her journey, I was weeping. Because – shocker! – gay men have body image issues too.
Awww. I’m so glad you liked the film and you related to it. This is why we did it. I haven’t seen a movie like this in a very long time, maybe not ever, where I thought, “These are real humans, this is a real human story.” There are raw emotions here, and there’s vulnerability in a way that’s so beautiful and isn’t always showcased in film. I just really wanted to be a part of that kind of storytelling.
Your filmography has been very LGBTQ-inclusive. As Alice in “Rough Night,” you were the perfect ally-friend to Blaire and Frankie, played by Zoë Kravitz and Ilana Glazer.
Absolutely! We wanted to get them back together! I mean, how cute is that couple? And they were always fighting with each other and we were like, “You like each other! Get back together!” I was so happy with that ending too, because I don’t think I was around when they were shooting that part of the scene where they end up being back together at the end and I loved the way it was handled. It was so beautiful and real.
Also beautiful: that cameo from Bob the Drag Queen, who was the DJ while you girls danced to “My Neck, My Back (Lick It).”
Oh my goodness, Bob the Drag Queen. Amazing! We had a really good time. I think that was our second day of shooting and I remember I was so nervous because my character was the one that had to know the dance perfectly because she holds onto her college memories for dear life. So I was in my own head about the dance – and then everybody else was losing their minds over Bob! I was like, “I’m so excited to be working with you too!” We were so thrilled that we got to work with Bob.
While writing for “SNL,” do you recall any LGBTQ-oriented sketches you wrote?
I’m trying to remember. It’s funny: I just did an interview today where they were showing a clip from something that I wrote and it was a sketch called “Your Mom Talks to Megan Fox,” and it was just a mother talking to Megan Fox and how funny that conversation would be. But, actually, I’ll be honest with you: I did not get a lot of stuff on the air (laughs). I don’t remember most of my sketches, but I’ll say this: I don’t remember anything really making it on.
As Cynthia in “Sword of Trust,” you play a lesbian. Is this the first lesbian character you’ve played, and what can you tell us about her?
I’m trying to think if it’s the first lesbian character I’ve played – it might be, technically! I will just say I believe it was originally going to a woman who’s a lesbian – I wanna say that (laughs) – and they called me last minute because she had to go shoot another project, which is very exciting! But I’m hoping I did it justice. We had the best time shooting. Michaela (Watkins, also her co-star in “Brittany Runs a Marathon”) and I were … I would say careful. We wanted to make sure they seemed like a real couple and they really cared about each other. I think that comes across in the movie, that they would do anything for each other. It’s really sweet.
As a comedian, are you conscious of what lines should and shouldn’t be crossed when it comes to queer content?
Absolutely. One of my good friends is non-binary and we’ve been trying to figure out a way to showcase more artists in the LGBTQ+ community. We would love to do something where there’s an actress who wants to work with a new up-and-coming director who is trans, or a non-binary short film where it’s showing them being the one who saves the day when there’s a plane attack. We are just like, “What are interesting stories we haven’t seen before in making people superheroes or just showing normal life?” Like in our movie, with Seth. Just showcasing more of that.
There was this sort of unofficial questionnaire online, and they were asking a bunch of questions about what they have and haven’t seen in film and television. The amount of LGBTQ people that wanted to be seen but also not killed off immediately was so upsetting to me and it opened up my eyes to the fact that that happens and how sad that is and, you know, if they’re gonna do a remake of “Harry Met Sally,” what is the gay version? I’m curious to see that. I would love to see that. I would pay for a ticket to go see that film because we’ve seen it the other way for so long.
Speaking of role reversal, what’s the latest on the Disney remake of “Splash” with Channing?
Yeah, we’re trying – we’re trying! It’s being written right now. Really excited about it. Anything to work with him again because he is a doll of a human being and, I mean, it would be such a dream come true. I would be playing, basically, the Tom Hanks part, and what is more thrilling than that?
And Channing, a merman, to boot.
Yes, Channing as a merman! I’m giving the people what they want. That’s what I’m trying to do.
At the very least you’re giving me what I want, so thank you.
Yes, I’m doing this for you, Chris.
Judith Light and the Power of Possibility: Actress Talks Hollywood Ageism & Her New Soap-Star Role
- September 2, 2019 - 4:29pm
Judith Light got her start on “One Life to Live” in 1977 as housewife-turned-prostitute Karen Wolek, but the luminous screen and stage actress couldn’t be confined to a daytime soap. Her boundless range and abundant empathy for others are suffused into nearly a half-century’s worth of characters she’s played with the same gentle spirit that greeted me on the phone recently. Her role on the classic 1980s sitcom “Who’s the Boss?” further established her as one of our great leading ladies. That success, in particular, gave the LGBTQ activist a platform to become one of only a few celebrities willing to speak out on HIV/AIDS during the height of the pandemic. Somehow, though, it always seems like Judith Light is just getting started.
At 70 years old, an age when many actresses can’t find screen work, Light has been doing some of her very best. As Marilyn Miglin, the wife of one of serial killer Andrew Cunanan’s victims, she was devastatingly perfect in Ryan Murphy’s “The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story.” With just a brief role in two episodes, she still managed to catch the attention of Emmy voters, who nominated her for her portrayal of the distraught cosmetics entrepreneur. In addition to the two consecutive Daytime Emmy Awards she won for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series for playing Karen Wolek, Light also received two nominations for her portrayal of Shelly Pfefferman, the wife of Maura, a trans woman, on “Transparent.”
Her latest role in the indie dramedy “Before You Know It” has her coming full circle: Light plays Sherrell, an aging soap star trying to rise above Hollywood’s ageist and sexist attitudes. Sherrell becomes an important figure in the lives of Rachel Gurner (Hannah Pearl Utt, who directed and co-wrote the feature), a lesbian stage manager, and her sister, Jackie (co-writer Jen Tullock), as they reconnect with the actress, their presumed-deceased mother.
Recently, Light spoke warmly about how her role as Sherrell reflects this latest feminist wave and the evolution of LGBTQ characters in her work. Then, because Judith Light can’t be contained, and because sometimes she’s a life coach, she waxed poetic about believing in the power of possibility.
Sherrell is like an onion being peeled back as the movie progresses.
That’s a great way to describe it, Chris. Thank you. That’s so great that you saw it, because that was in the writing, that was in the way we developed the character from the very beginning.
But Judith, I do want a full order of soaps starring Sherrell. I want more wigs and more sassing young girls on the street who are getting her autograph for their grandma.
(Laughs) How divine, right?
And she’s so glam. Over the years you’ve rocked some glam looks – did you have a style vision for Sherrell?
No, actually, we didn’t. We looked at different pictures of soap stars and their hair and we thought, “Oh, this could be really good.” But we had to be very careful that we weren’t going to go make her a caricature and go over the top. Hannah really had a lot to do with the look and the wardrobe. She didn’t want her to be something that was goofy or weird, none of us did. If you’re playing a soap opera character, someone who’s on a soap opera, you have to be really careful and appropriate so that it’s a real person, not just somebody who’s somebody you can write off easily. (Sherrell) was created with a kind of expansiveness and understanding of who she actually is and what her life was like and what her choices were. It’s a very real person.
I did totally eat up all the very good-bad dialogue you got to deliver as Sherrell during the soap scenes, and with such fun melodrama in the first scene. And in that fur! Then she slaps her co-star because she thinks the scene needs it. It seemed like you were having fun.
Oh, it’s a joy. That’s also great writing, that’s also when Jen and Hannah were putting it all together and we were all talking about it together. We were really talking to each other about the characters, what they would do, where they would go and how they would be perceived.
Not that you’ve slapped someone, but have you ever gotten so carried away as a particular character in a scene that you just lost yourself in that character and abandoned the script because something else felt right?
Never.
No?
No, no. That’s not professional. I would never do that. Now, when we would do scenes on “Transparent,” would we know the dialogue? Absolutely. Would we abandon it at certain points? And would Jill (Soloway, the “Transparent” creator) feed us different things or would we throw in different ideas? Absolutely. Anything like that has to be done under the framework of safety – that everybody feels safe – and in the context of never going beyond or making anyone feel scared or treating someone improperly. To me, it’s unacceptable. You just don’t do that. There’s nothing more important on a set than making sure everybody feels safe.
Have you ever witnessed that happen on a set before, though?
No.
It just happens in Sherrell’s world.
But look at what’s happening to her: She knows that things are falling apart. She knows that she’s not being paid attention to. It doesn’t come out of nothing and nowhere; it comes out of this desire to be seen, to be heard, to be relevant, to be young, to be cool, to be chic, to be trendy. To be everything.
She’s fighting for her dignity.
Absolutely. Perfectly said.
Well, it’s very palpable. What’s your take on her attitudes about how women have to be portrayed to be considered desirable?
That’s out of the way the world and the culture are. That’s what she’s been taught, that’s what she knows. That’s all she knows.
How do you feel that’s relevant to the real world?
She doesn’t fit anymore as she’s getting older, and that’s frightening for her. She feels uncertain and scared. These are a lot of things that a lot of women are experiencing right now, and that’s probably what made this such a valuable project to me, to show that.
All women are going through this at a certain age, feeling less behind and not relevant. Feeling the connection with my women friends and women in general – we are holding ourselves in a different framework now. We are standing in a very different – no pun intended – light, to really demonstrate to ourselves and to the world who we actually are. Those things that the culture has, in some cases, smothered us with and had us be quiet about, we are no longer doing that. We’re not victims; we’re powerful. And I think that’s what you see Sherrell learn as the movie goes on.
I liked that the lesbian daughter’s queerness was a footnote – we’re seeing a lot more of that, where LGBTQ characters are written into a story without their sexuality being a focus of the story. Is that something you appreciated about “Before You Know It”?
Hello!
I know, being a gay icon, I figured as much.
Honey, I’m not an icon.
I can call you an icon.
Well, thank you. But of course it’s like, “Oh, OK, so she’s looking for a girlfriend; so what about any of that? So what.” That is something that I love about this, and that’s very much Hannah and Jen. It’s not a focus.
Listen, in the early days, we had to do that. We had to make it pointed. It had to be about that. Now, there’s an incorporation of the LGBTQ community into the world where it doesn’t have to be outlined and highlighted in some way. Now, look, in some places it still does. I don’t know if you saw Frank Bruni’s column (“Hate Is So Much Bigger Than Trump”) in The New York Times, but it’s really powerful. We forget that people still relate to the LGBTQ community in the way that these people had written letters to him about him being gay and it’s so lovely that we could do that in this film. But it’s still not where the world needs to be, and you know that, and I know that.
I’m curious about how you make the choices you do, because your motivations are striking and admirable. What boxes do you have to check before you sign on to a project these days?
Thank you for noticing, and yes, I’ve had some really wonderful things come my way. There’s been some real shifts for me since “Ugly Betty” happened. It’s always the character for me. It’s always, “Who is this person? How is this person there to serve the piece? How is this person someone that could wake up the audience to what they might be seeing or feeling in their own lives? How does it translate for them?” So I’ve always got the audience in my mind as I’m looking at something: “How does this make a difference? How does this matter? Who are the people I am working with?” When you get to work with people like Jill Soloway and Ryan Murphy, you’re in a rarefied atmosphere. Right now I’m doing a project (“Manhunt: Lone Wolf”) with a wonderful producer, Michael Dinner, and it’s about the Olympic bombing in Atlanta in 1996.
What clicked for you about Ryan Murphy’s upcoming Netflix show “The Politician”?
I actually can’t tell you a lot, but Bette (Midler) and I, last November and December, we shot the last episode of the first season and now we will start shooting the second season sometime this fall, where it’s Ben (Platt) and Bette and me and just a bunch of others. So I don’t know! I just don’t know where they’re going to go with this. When it drops, you’ll be able to see what kind of character I’m actually playing.
With “Transparent” ending, what about Shelly are you going to miss the most?
Everything. I love her. And it’s so funny, because in the beginning people used to say to me, “Oh my god, I can’t stand her. She drives me crazy.” Then they would say, “… and I love her so much.” It’s true, there’s this gentle, fragile soul underneath all of that craziness, pushing people away and telling people what to do. And yet, I’ve had people say to me, “My relationship with my mother changed after falling in love with Shelly.” I love that about her. That’s a great creation. That’s a woman in her mature years who finally gets to have her voice back, and in so many ways. I just trust that it will be that for so many people who see this musical finale, that there’s a real sense somewhere that they’ll miss her too, but they will be reminded of who she actually is and the joy of her.
When we last spoke, it was just after I watched the very first episode of “Transparent.” I told you the kindness, love, empathy and compassion of the show really resonated with me. Now, we’re at the end. What do you hope the legacy of “Transparent” will be?
All of what you just said. All of that. From the very first to the very – to this completion. Mind you, with every ending is a beginning, and I wouldn’t be surprised if there was more that came about within the structure of this. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if there was more.
Are you hinting that the cast may reunite down the line for more episodes?
No, no! I’m not hinting. I’m just saying – look, things like that cannot be contained, and there is always the possibility. I am a big proponent of possibility. I’m not making definitive statements about anything – about the ending or the beginning or the anything. Seriously, I don’t know.
And I’m not being coy. I just don’t know anything. However, I hold the world in a way that allows for all kinds of possibilities, all kinds of openness to things, and I’m always surprised by how things turn out. I was just talking to somebody about it, and I’ve said it in several interviews recently because it seems so apt to me in relating around “Transparent,” which is that: Soren Kierkegaard, the philosopher, said that, “Life can only be understood backward; but it must be lived forward.” We all think, “We know this.” We don’t know anything.
As I get older, I keep thinking, “Well, maybe I’ll know more next year.”
No, honey. No! And hopefully you won’t. It’s not about imposing what you think in your mind is gonna happen. Whoever thought we were gonna get marriage equality? I mean, look at that. Look at what it took to get that. So you cannot make blanket statements about how things are gonna be. We’re all looking for that because in the structure of the human condition, we don’t like uncertainty. It’s scary. We think we have to know. Well, what would happen if we all didn’t have to know? Didn’t have to make statements about things that it had to be a particular way? What if we could just stay in the place of being completely open?
It’s getting to that place that is the real journey and the real struggle.
It’s not actually a journey – it can literally happen right now. If you could choose to let go of the mind that got programmed to tell you that you have to know everything or think about everything and be on top of everything and be perfect about everything, what would life be like? Who would you be? You would be somebody that you already are and forgot you were.
Shura’s Art Will Go On: Pop’s ‘Anxious Lesbian Pope’ on Nearly Retiring and Her Titanic Musical
- September 2, 2019 - 4:19pm
Album release week has Shura, synth-pop’s “lesbian pope,” feeling like “Ice Age” squirrel Scrat, whose acorn keeps getting away from him. “The acorn is representative of my well-being, my sanity,” says the 30-year-old British musician. “And it’s always a hair’s breadth away.”
I am Skyping with Shura, who is calling from Rough Trade, a record store in Nottingham, England, just days after the release of her second album, “Forevher,” the follow-up to her 2016 debut “Nothing’s Real.” Named by her girlfriend, Pauline, who she met on the dating app Raya while living in London (the two were in a long-distance relationship until Shura moved to Brooklyn), the title represents “For Her,” “Forever” and “Forever Her.” And calling it simply “Forever” was out of the question; that name was already taken by the Spice Girls.
During our chat, and without the video feature activated because “I’m literally in a cave and look like I haven’t slept,” Shura discusses playing dress-up with her gay twin, her infatuation with fun nuns, writing a Titanic musical from the perspective of the icebergs and being scared of Madonna.
After “Nothing’s Real,” did you anticipate making another breakup album?
When I finished writing “Nothing’s Real,” I was kind of like, “I don’t know if I can make another record again,” because it does take so much out of you emotionally. At that moment, I just didn’t feel like I felt anything at the end of that – (it) just really, really kind of sucks you dry. Not necessarily as a negative either. I was just exhausted. So I … I kind of imagined retiring!
One and done.
Bye! Exit stage left! I was finishing touring with Tegan and Sara and M83 and that’s when I started talking to my current partner and was like, “Maybe I can write some songs again.” I was attracted to someone and that was exciting, and I was writing about that. It wasn’t until maybe a year into the process of writing that I was beginning to decide what to record and I was like, “Oh, shit, this is gonna be a really different record.” I always love artists who do that, who make big leaps of faith and take risks; sometimes they pay off and sometimes they don’t, but the fun is in trying.
How did you decide to include lesbian nuns in the “religion (u can lay your hands on me)” video?
I love nuns. I had this calendar as a kid called “Nuns Having Fun” and it was images of nuns smoking and riding a rollercoaster. Images of women who are traditionally not meant to have any sort of worldly pleasure in that sense. It’s a life of: You make a commitment to God, and so you see these people doing naughty things and it’s something that does spark joy and makes you laugh and smile. So I’ve always loved nuns. And then I remember seeing Jude Law in “The Young Pope” and I thought he looked amazing, and I just went, “I want to look amazing.”I have this really great job where I can do that. And if you don’t do that as a pop star or as a musician, I think you’re missing out on one of the funnest aspects of the job.
That’s something I learned from doing “Nothing’s Real,” because I was at a major (label) and maybe nervous about them turning me into something that I wasn’t, which they didn’t, actually. But I was still nervous about it. I really tried to cling onto, “I’m gonna wear a denim jacket and a beanie and I’m just gonna be me.” And actually, I was like, “But I can be anyone? Why wouldn’t I choose that? That’s fun.”
I used to love dressing up as a kid. I’d dress up as Zorro and Peter Pan. I remember (my brother) Nick and I doing “Beauty and the Beast” with the dress and the beast costume and I cried, and then we swapped and he wore the dress and I wore the beast costume and we were like, “This is perfect.” So I’ve always loved inhabiting different personalities. After three years of silence, I was like, “I wanna come back and I wanna be the pope,” because I thought that would be hilarious. Anxious lesbian comes back and she’s the vaping, lesbian pope.
In fact, you’ve envisioned the entire album as a lesbian musical of sorts with a similar queer, religious motif.
Yeah. Oh my god, I still really wanna do it.
Have you truly given this much thought?
I want to get someone good to write the script, for sure. I was thinking that it would be absolutely hilarious if (“Fleabag” creator) Phoebe Waller-Bridge wrote the script for it; she’s just in my head right now because she’s sort of everywhere. I feel like she’d nail it. I started thinking about the story and was like, “Maybe it has to be someone who’s a girl growing up in a convent school.” That’s where it would start. I also just like the idea of it being a dream sequence with popes and lesbian nuns.
And maybe a cameo from Sister Mary Clarence. Let her run the convent for lesbian nuns. In fact, maybe Sister Mary Clarence has been a closeted lesbian all these years and she finally has the opportunity to come out during your musical.
I mean, that would be amazing. I feel like you’ve thought about this more than I have so maybe we should get you to write the script.
Call Phoebe. We’ll collaborate.
Yeah, perfect. Amazing. We’ll do one night on Broadway.
One night only!
Of course. It has to be one night only. If I make a musical that’s more successful than any album I’ve done, that would be amazing, especially given that I really didn’t like musicals growing up because I kept hearing my brother rehearse them and I was like, “Shut up. I don’t care about tomorrow. I do not care! Annie, leave me alone!”
Do you have serious aspirations to pursue a musical?
I’ve written a musical! I wrote one when I was at university. I can’t say it was very good. And it was very short, so I’d have to develop it. But I wrote a musical about the story of the Titanic from the point of view of the iceberg. It was this love story between two icebergs (laughs) in the Atlantic. And there was like the Greek chorus, so to speak, but they were seagulls. There was one bit where they ended up in Chile and there were penguins and there was a song called “It’s Chilly in Chile,” and the main iceberg was called Ferdinand and he ended up obviously dying because the Titanic crashes into him. So it’s a tragedy. I don’t think I’ve told anyone that before, so there you go. Exclusive.
Based on the “religion” video, I assume you may have been a bit obsessed with Madonna’s “Like a Prayer.”
You reckon? (Laughs) We had “The Immaculate Collection” on VHS, which I suspect was a way of keeping my twin and I occupied for large swaths of time when we were being a bit hyperactive. We would sit in front of the television and stare, and that would just be us for a couple of hours. So she’s been a huge inspiration musically and absolutely (the “religion”) video is intended as a nod and homage. I discovered the other day that I released the record on her birthday, so that feels like a nice kind of full circle. I was tempted to be like, “Happy Birthday, Madonna!”and send her a link to my album but then got too scared because I thought she’d just scream at me.
“Forevher” manages to be both explicitly queer and incidentally queer. And your queerness has been a major talking point during recent interviews. Did you expect the queerness of this album to be as big of a focus as it’s been while promoting the album?
When you come from a queer perspective, you never really feel like what you’re doing is super gay because it’s just what you’re doing. It’s only when you start to see it through the eyes of other people – when you see fans and they’re so excited that it is explicitly queer and they’re like, “Oh my god, this is the album that I needed when I was a teenager that I didn’t have.”
I did an interview recently and the headline was, “Shura sometimes forgets she’s a lesbian” (laughs). I just forget in the same way that I forget that I am a woman sometimes because I don’t really wake up every day going, “Where am I gonna take my vagina today?” If you are going to be openly queer, it’s always going to be a part of any conversation. For “Nothing’s Real,” actually, it was still a talking point even though I never used a pronoun. Even when I wasn’t being explicitly queer lyrically, it was still a part of the conversation.
How does it feel to be using specific gender pronouns on this album?
It’s fun to be able to do it and be like, “I don’t care. I don’t care that someone might go, ‘Oh, shit, OK! Let me switch this off.’”
How were you writing about being queer at the age of 16, when you first started writing songs?
The language I would use was very decorative. I would use metaphors and allegories, and it would be much closer to poetry lyrically. I would never be specific about what was going on. I would kind of talk in…
In code?
Exactly. But I understood the code. And anyone who knew what it was about would know the code; anyone who was a fan, if they understood that I was gay, would also get the code. But I think just growing up in general as a writer, I’ve found where I thrive is in the really mundane and the really specific.
That’s the thing: When you first start making music, it’s normally because you’re a fan, right? It takes you a while sometimes to discover what it is that you’re good at. Maybe you try to emulate some of your heroes and then over time you discover what you’re about. As a kid, I would’ve loved to have been a rock star. I would’ve wanted to be in a rock band and shredded (laughs), but I’ll let someone else be good at that and I’ll do this. One of the most important things about being creative is knowing what you’re not good at.
What else are you not good at?
My singing voice, I wouldn’t describe it as especially acrobatic. I have, I would say, a relatively delicate voice. Some of my heroes – some of the people whose voices I love, like Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey – they are voices. You hear them and you know who it is straightaway, and I was just like, “Well, I can’t sing like that so I’m gonna stop trying and I have to find the way my voice works.” Another thing I’m not good at it, apparently, is buying presents, which was really tragic to discover.
Who told you that you weren’t a good gift giver?
My girlfriend! I thought I was brilliant at buying presents until this relationship. But I don’t know whether I’m not very good or she’s just very, very picky about what she likes. (Laughs)
I used to buy Mariah Carey albums and give them to people as gifts even if they weren’t fans.
When “Nothing’s Real” came out, my twin bought 10 copies of the album and gave them to everyone he worked with. (Laughs)
How has love changed the way you approach queerness in your work?
I’m exploring a different side of my queer romantic experience, which is like … joy (laughs). For a start! The queer stories we’re exposed to are quite dramatic stories; in film and music, we don’t get to see a lot of happiness or things working. This record is about a three-year period, a little time capsule of a really lovely time … before it goes wrong! And hopefully it never will (laughs). It’s made me sort of feel braver in terms of expressing my queerness, but then also makes me feel more vulnerable.
Declaring being in love is putting yourself in a vulnerable position. But I’m somewhat used to putting my life experiences on record, so for me it’s maybe not as big of a deal because it’s just what I’ve always done. I guess it’s a bigger audience now (laughs) than when I was 16 and recording on a MiniDisc recorder for my friends at school, who were like, “Ugh. She just wishes she were Avril Lavigne.”
What is Pauline’s favorite song on the album?
Her favorite song is “The Stage.” I think she likes the rhythm of it because it’s quite weird. It’s quite a weird record. Quite a challenge. I was a bit nervous about putting it out before the record was released because, musically, it’s a demanding listen because of these huge shifts and chord progressions and key changes that never really materialize. I finished the record in January and was like, “I just delivered something. I don’t know what it is. I like it. But I don’t know what it is.”
Do you know now?
I definitely have a better handle on it now. And actually, this is (laughs) gonna sound awful, probably, but the more I get to know it, the more proud of myself I am. The more I kind of impress myself. Like everyone else, I’m still getting to know it. It’s like having a kid and when they get to be about 4, 5 or 6 and you start to realize they’re developing a real personality and you’re like, “Oh, I made one of these children! Great!” That’s kind of like me with my album. I’m like, “Oh, wow. This is all right. Well done.”
Murray Bartlett Interview
- September 2, 2019 - 3:58pm
The role was originated by actor Marcus D'Amico, who first starred as Mouse, the gay confidante of adorably fizzy San Francisco-via-Ohio transplant Mary Ann Singleton (Laura Linney), in the series’ debut on PBS in 1993. Paul Hopkins took over the part for More Tales of the City, in 1998, and again in Further Tales of the City, in 2001. Now, Bartlett, 48, portrays the Tales mainstay in Neflix's new revival of the perennial saga.
The openly gay Aussie actor recently talked about Mouse in modern times and acting alongside characters he’s long cherished.
Having shot two LGBTQ-themed shows in San Francisco, how would you compare those experiences?
We shot some stuff in San Francisco for Tales of the City, but (unlike Looking) we weren’t there most of the time. But the show has the spirit of San Francisco, so it was interesting; there’s a real spirit to San Francisco that I connected to in the ’90s. When I first went there, I really loved it, and on my first trip to San Francisco I watched the first season of Tales of the City, and so my impressions of San Francisco are completely sort of inextricable from Tales of the City (laughs) and I projected Tales of the City onto San Francisco.
Was Tales on your mind while shooting HBO’s Looking, then?
Weirdly there was that thread for me working on Looking in San Francisco. We arrived to shoot the pilot of Looking in San Francisco on the night of my birthday and I rented this old stable house, which sounds kind of glamorous – it wasn’t (laughs). But it was beautiful and it had a garden and we watched Tales of the City, and then Armistead sort of became our godfather. We met up with him a couple of times and he was so lovely and generous with us. Even though I’m playing two gay men who live in San Francisco, there is quite significant differences in the characters, but the worlds of those shows are really kind of intertwined because San Francisco is so sort of bound to Tales of the City in a lot of ways for me.
What did the original Tales of the City mean to you?
Particularly in the ’90s there were very few queer characters in film and TV and a lot of them were tragic figures, so it was lovely to have these characters. I mean, they were tortured in some ways, but they were generally this wonderful family of people. It was great to have that kind of identification with real characters that weren’t, like, about to die or going through some crazy stuff that we got used to with queer characters.
During that time, AIDS was a ubiquitous storyline in TV and film featuring LGBTQ characters. And in the new Tales, Mouse’s HIV-positive status is reflected as just a small part of his everyday life. It isn’t dwelled on.
We’re at a time where most people with HIV are undetectable or they’re on PrEP, but it was interesting playing out “older generation meets younger generation” in terms of attitudes about that between Michael and Ben (Michael’s lover, played by openly gay actor Charlie Barnett of Russian Doll) because Michael still carries all the baggage of that, the fear and the way it was drummed into us of that generation that you have to have safe sex. Even though there’s these amazing new freedoms that have come with the developments that have happened, it’s very difficult to let go of that stuff. Michael went through it at a time when he thought he was gonna die and he lost a lot of the people around him. It was a huge trauma to carry into this new generation of freedom, and for him that’s interesting and challenging to navigate through.
The show’s approach to the cross-generational divide is something I appreciate, particularly during that tense dinner debate where Ben calls out a gay man for using the word “tranny” and, in turn, he’s chastised for his young post-AIDS gay privilege. What about that scene struck you?
It’s such a beautifully written episode. We had such an amazing team on the show and Andy (Parker), our writer for that episode, was just phenomenal. The thing that struck me about it is that it throws up both perspectives of a younger and an older generation and it doesn’t allow you to take sides. You kind of agree and disagree with both, but they both have a point and I love that. It does a beautiful job of just showing the complexity of that sort of collision of those two perspectives, but it doesn’t say this one is right or this one is wrong. It just shows the value of both.
To be a part of a show that once left a great impression on you, what was that experience like? What went through your head when you stepped on set and there’s Olympia Dukakis as Anna Madrigal and there’s Laura Linney as Mary Ann?
It was completely surreal and I felt that the moment I knew I had the job. It was very dreamlike, partly because I connected so strongly to the show and it and the books mean so much to me personally and I was involved in Looking, which was very sort of interconnected because of Tales for me. Also amazing because I love those women as actors in pretty much everything that they’ve done, but I first came to them – well, I think I’d seen Olympia in Moonstruck before Tales of the City, but I hadn’t seen Laura before Tales of the City and so I strongly associate them with those characters.
So I was nervous in my first few scenes with Laura, even though she was just very gracious and friendly. But then once we started the scene, I’m talking to Mary Ann! It’s weird! Sort of no kind of acting required in a way (laughs) because she is this character for me. So it was very surreal and just a completely joyful experience. And Olympia, everything that she says just feels like she’s this sage woman reaching down from the heavens giving you this pearl of wisdom. I just wanna cry every time she says something. So it was just an absolutely beautiful experience.
Was there more pressure on you knowing that Mouse had already been played by two other actors?
I didn’t feel that. I don’t know why I didn’t feel that, but I think maybe because so much time has gone by in between and so much has happened to Mouse since we last saw him in the TV shows. Decades have gone by, and he’s gone through so much that I felt like he’s got the essence of Mouse but he’s almost a new character, as you kind of are after a couple of decades, particularly going through everything that he went through. He’s still got that buoyancy and that boyish, man-child vibe, which I love. But he’s gone through the depths, facing mortality, seen a lot of death. He’s been through some deep shit. Really transformative stuff. So I felt like I could really approach it fresh. I didn’t really think about it that much, to be honest.
You had a bit part alongside Sarah Jessica Parker in Sex and the City as her gay friend Oliver. Say you were to get Mouse, Oliver and Dom, your “Looking” character, together for brunch – how do you envision that might go?
(Laughs) I think they’d probably get along. I feel like Oliver is a little more worldly, or likes to think of himself as more worldly, so he might find them a little provincial. I feel like Michael and Dom would get on well, but I feel like they’re of a slightly different generation and I think Dom’s life has been a little more sort of superficial than Mouse’s has. I feel like Mouse has been forced to go really deep and face his demons and death and all that stuff, and I think Dom is starting to do that but he’s still at the beginning of that. I think Dom would probably be slightly intimidated by that aspect of Mouse and Mouse would be like, “Yeah, I see you” (laughs). So I don’t think any of them would be fast friends, but I think they’d get along.
Especially with bottomless mimosas.
Exactly. Loosen things up!
In the new Tales, Mary Ann returns to Barbary Lane with an infomercial product she once proudly hawked: Bloodies, which is essentially a hooded Snuggie. Did they let you keep your Bloodie?
(Laughs) We all got Bloodies as a wrap gift!
Are you wearing it right now?
No, I’m not. It’s really funny, but it’s one of those things where you’re like, “Great. What the fuck am I gonna do with this now?” (Laughs) You can have it if you like.
You haven’t worn it, I take it?
I mean, I’ve worn it just kind of, you know, to laugh at it (laughs), but not for real. I still have this amazing kind of Pendleton robe from Looking that I wear because it’s so beautiful. I never wear robes but it’s so gorgeous I have to wear it sometimes.
Do you keep in touch with the Looking cast?
Yeah! That was a total lovefest, that show. And we became great friends. And we’re still really good friends, all of us. A bunch of us live in New York so we see each other regularly.
You had a famously sexy porn stache on “Looking” and you have a beard on “Tales,” and because it’s not a Murray Bartlett interview without asking about your facial hair: Were there serious discussions about Mouse’s facial hair for this new “Tales”?
(Laughs) I had a little beard when I auditioned, and I’ve got a lot of gray in my beard. I’m not that much younger than Mouse, but I’m a little bit younger, so we wanted him to look his age so it seemed that having it gray was helpful in that. I also think that beards are still a thing – maybe they’re not anymore; I can’t keep up! – (laughs) but you still see a lot of beards around, and it felt like something very kind of his generation. Also I think he has this boyish spirit but he likes to have this manliness to counteract his boyish, sometimes girlish, spirit.
And Mouse is basically a daddy now.
Totally. I think Ben in some ways has it more together, but Mouse does have that breath of experience that does give him a sort of daddy vibe and daddy wisdom, but I think he’s happy for Ben to take the wheel at times.
“Tales” doesn’t shy away from queer sex, and in episode two there’s a great queer-sex montage. For “Looking,” writer-director Andrew Haigh was intent on making sure those sex scenes were done a particular way. In terms of authentically depicting queer sex and relationships, did you learn anything from working with him?
Andrew is kind of a master of that stuff. He does that so beautifully, I think. But I guess one of the big differences for me between those two shows is that Dom in “Looking” never really got into a relationship. I mean, he did a little bit with Lynn later on. But what was really great in “Tales of the City,” and what Charlie and I were really mindful of, was we wanted all the sex scenes, all the intimate stuff, to be very intimate. We wanted to focus on the intimacy – these guys love each other – and that they’re not just fucking, they’re actually connecting. Because I don’t think we see a lot of that. I think we get to see a lot of angry sex. I mean, it’s definitely changing and we’re seeing more, but I think it’s really beautiful for us to see more queer relationships that are loving and tender and, yeah, it’s sexual and hopefully feels very real, but the grounding point of it is that these two people love each other.